yet often

[mat james]

I seldom strive to pray
yet often
my legs give way

[imaginary friend]

I offer thanks instead
for little
epiphanies I've read

(like yours)

[Manna]

this sounds quite familiar. have you pinned it up here before, matj?

[mat james]

Yes manna, it is familiar. (of a family ! )
The link below was the original posting. I was tossing it over in my mind and chose to create a more personal version.
As I distilled, cut and morphed, those few lines above were all that was left.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9038

imaginary friend, I am pleased you made "that intuitive leap".

[imaginary friend]

Thanks for the link Mat, I read the original version, which I liked very much as well.

I didn't post to that thread, because you have since edited the poem, but reading it, this jumped to mind:

'...you lose your grip
and then you slip
into the masterpiece'

And, I confess, so did this:

'...it doesn't matter
where you worship
as long as you're down on your knees'

[mat james]

I F,

this jumped to mind:

That puts me in pretty good company.

The "legs giving way" certainly sent my mind tumbling too. I was hoping that the 2nd and third line would ignite a many faceted ambiguity and I am grateful you picked up on it, imaginary friend.
I also had a feeling that women may initially interpret those lines very differently from how men might. ( is that the case girls???? Not that you can answer for men: but have a guess anyway)
That is one reason why I decided to stick only to these 3 lines in this version of the poem. It seemed to me that the sparcity of the poem allowed for greater freedom of interpretation for the reader.
I hope so.

Thanks for the feedback im..fr.

Mat.

[Cate]

I seldom strive to pray
yet often
my legs give way

My original thought was that you become overwhelmed by beauty, although I suppose it could be pain. That at these moments you leave control behind and just become open and part of the experience - very in the moment. Okay really I'm just seeing it through my own eyes - that's what I would have meant if they were my words - for me that's as close as I come to a prayer.

How do men see it? I'm curious now. Do men and women see things like this differently?

[Casey Butler]

My original thought was that you become overwhelmed by beauty, although I suppose it could be pain. That at these moments you leave control behind and just become open and part of the experience - very in the moment. Okay really I'm just seeing it through my own eyes - that's what I would have meant if they were my words - for me that's as close as I come to a prayer.

How do men see it? I'm curious now. Do men and women see things like this differently?

How do men see what? Beauty and pain - what about frustration? Men are not normally multi-taskers - much less volunteers. Get the deer, take it home, go for a smoke, think, dream.

If you can get somebody else to get the deer, better yet.

Stuff that interferes just frustrates a man.

What's open and what's closed? What's the experience?

Casey

[imaginary friend]

Mat,

Here's my story (and I'm stickin' to it):

In a gentle way, your poem allows the interchange of spiritual and physical, celebrating either, or both. The original poem elicited the same response, with its reference to Jesus' vulnerability, and doubt, and humanness at Gethsemane. His humanness is what makes him accessible after all, not like that mean, unattainable, old guy up there with all the 'Thou shalt not's'

I think one of the reasons that women love Leonard, is his appreciation of their 'femaleness' – their physicality and their spirituality – as complement to his 'maleness'. Not all men have that love of femaleness, but some do.

[lizzytysh]

I think one of the reasons that women love Leonard, is his appreciation of their 'femaleness' – their physicality and their spirituality – as complement to his 'maleness'. Not all men have that love of femaleness, but some do.

So very well said, IF .


~ Lizzy

[Casey Butler]

But Leonard's not a man, Leonard's a woman now. The King of Hearts chose fraternization.

Here's what happens to men who go too far empathizing with women: We're driving down a dirt road up on Kolob, it gets really rocky. I say, time to turn around. My wife says, but what's around the corner up there, come on! I say, but Dorothy only has four inches clearance! Those are big rocks! She says, you can avoid them... So a rock takes out my muffler and there was just a dead end around that corner.

I'm all for Leonard's way with women, but he's changed...

Casey

[Casey Butler]

Please forgive my double take. But I have to say something here...

The original poem elicited the same response, with its reference to Jesus' vulnerability, and doubt, and humanness at Gethsemane. His humanness is what makes him accessible after all, not like that mean, unattainable, old guy up there with all the 'Thou shalt not's'

I'm not sure what you mean by "doubts".

But I know whom Jesus three times sought the verdict of after praying to the Father he himself taught us of.

That God, the God of the 'Thou shalt not's', was fast asleep every time Jesus sought his answer.

The God Jesus' life reflected perfectly - the God he didn't doubt for a minute - never required the sacrifice of anyone or anything.

Jesus said it was over. The God of the 'Thou shalt not's' didn't believe him.

The word since has been, "The time is at hand".

Why are we always sleeping when we read him?

Casey

[mat james]

the God he didn't doubt for a minute

Casey
What about:
"La'ama sabach tha'ni"
My God, My God,("Why hast thou foresaken me?").

I think one of the reasons that women love Leonard, is his appreciation of their 'femaleness'

Imaginary friend.
I think I would rather get your take on this than Casey's. For one thing, it makes sense.
Casey, sometimes you suffer from "foot in mouth disease". Not always, but reasonably often.
eg:

But Leonard's not a man, Leonard's a woman now. The King of Hearts chose fraternization.

Here's what happens to men who go too far empathizing with women: We're driving down a dirt road up on Kolob, it gets really rocky. I say, time to turn around. My wife says, but what's around the corner up there, come on! I say, but Dorothy only has four inches clearance! Those are big rocks! She says, you can avoid them... So a rock takes out my muffler and there was just a dead end around that corner.

This example has more to do with blame than "empathy".
I suspect that your poor wife, whom you mention, is constantly belittled by you.

Blame goes with egocentricity and "knowallness". This at least is what you are projecting here to me.
And no doubt you will respond with even more of the same.


Cate wrote:

My original thought was that you become overwhelmed by beauty, although I suppose it could be pain. That at these moments you leave control behind and just become open and part of the experience - very in the moment. Okay really I'm just seeing it through my own eyes - that's what I would have meant if they were my words - for me that's as close as I come to a prayer.

Spot on Cate. Particularly the "overwhelmed by beauty" aspect.


Matj

[Casey Butler]

My God, My God,("Why hast thou foresaken me?").

Yeah, it's my wife's fault! She's to blame! :-)

Casey

[Casey Butler]

Mat,

Here's my story (and I'm stickin' to it):

In a gentle way, your poem allows the interchange of spiritual and physical, celebrating either, or both. The original poem elicited the same response, with its reference to Jesus' vulnerability, and doubt, and humanness at Gethsemane. His humanness is what makes him accessible after all, not like that mean, unattainable, old guy up there with all the 'Thou shalt not's'

I think one of the reasons that women love Leonard, is his appreciation of their 'femaleness' – their physicality and their spirituality – as complement to his 'maleness'. Not all men have that love of femaleness, but some do.

That's part of it, isn't it... you have never walked in his shoes. Because you haven't, you're not sure if he walked in them either.

You're supposed to be watching.

Instead, you've been set up here as judge, jury, and executioner for those happening by who do try to walk in his shoes.

Urizen indeed.

I told you...

If somebody else can found to get the deer for the man, all the better. It's just the way we are.

How does the song go, "it's all too beautiful", the delicate weaves of the spider's house.

Casey