L.C. Song Hunt

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
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Hartmut
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by Hartmut » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:54 am

Hi Steven,

'Almost Like The Blues'

'I couldn't meet their glances
I was staring at my shoes'
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Hartmut
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by Hartmut » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:22 am

In the mood for something more difficult?

Contestants, please name two songs that have a classical piece as their basis.

The first song is based very directly on a classical piece. The second song, much more indirectly.

Also, I'm secretly hoping that while searching for answers you come up with connections between Cohen songs and classical pieces that I hadn't thought about ...
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B4real
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by B4real » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:56 pm

Hehehe! Hartmut, I love your confidence :razz:
"I will play the Moonlight Sonata backwards" (Beethoven) from The Great Event immediately comes to mind but only as a line - not as the basis of the song.
Same for “The Maestro says it's Mozart” (Mozart) from Waiting For The Miracle.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to B4real ~ me
Attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy ~ me ...... The magic of art is the truth of its lies ~ me ...... Only left-handers are in their right mind!
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Hartmut
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by Hartmut » Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:44 pm

It's not so much confidence as the general lack of rules around here that someone explained to me recently.

Thank you, Bev, for fulfilling my secret hope. The songs you mention make connections that didn't come to my mind when I was thinking about this.

Unfortunately - or fortunately - this also means that these songs are not really the correct answers. I said 'fortunately' because this gives us the opportunity to hear the suggestions of the other participants of this thrilling game.
Steven
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by Steven » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:47 pm

Hi Hartmut,

Your confidence was well-founded. :)
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Hartmut
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by Hartmut » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:52 pm

Thank you, Steven. It's a relief to hear that. :-)
holydove
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by holydove » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:02 pm

Hi Hartmut,

One that comes to mind is Came So Far For Beauty; the melody/keyboard arrangement is very similar to Liebestraum #3 by Franz Liszt.
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Hartmut
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Re: AW: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by Hartmut » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:03 am

holydove wrote:One that comes to mind is Came So Far For Beauty; the melody/keyboard arrangement is very similar to Liebestraum #3 by Franz Liszt.
Hi Holydove,

You are absolutely right!

If someone would like to compare:
https://youtu.be/IKfe1TtBd6w

And isn't it a beautiful piano piece?

As far as I know, Leonard's co-writer John Lissauer was responsible for using the Liebestraum melodies. (And it kind of bugs me that they didn't acknowledge Liszt in the credits. - I'm not totally sure that Leonard knows about the Liszt connection, by the way. I heard an interview once - on Jennifer Warnes's web site - where Leonard expresses some admiration for the way Lissauer wrote the music for this song.)


The other song with a classical connection is quite hard to find. Do y'all want me to tell you the answer so that we can move on?
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Hartmut
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by Hartmut » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:20 am

If anybody is interested: I think the interview I mentioned is to be found somewhere here:

http://www.jenniferwarnes.com/fbr20-gal ... index.html
holydove
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Re: AW: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by holydove » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:38 pm

Hartmut wrote:
And isn't it a beautiful piano piece?

As far as I know, Leonard's co-writer John Lissauer was responsible for using the Liebestraum melodies. (And it kind of bugs me that they didn't acknowledge Liszt in the credits. - I'm not totally sure that Leonard know about the LIszt connection...,


The other song with a classical connection is quite hard to find. Do y'all want me to tell you the answer so that we can move on?
Yes, Liebestraum is a very beautiful piano piece! Are we sure that Lissauer was aware of the connection? (though it's kind of hard to imagine that he wasn't, but I suppose anything is possible. . .)

Is the other song maybe The Tennessee Waltz? With a kind of zigzaggy connection to Johann Strauss II & the Blue Danube?
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Hartmut
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by Hartmut » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:56 pm

holydove wrote:Are we sure that Lissauer was aware of the connection?
Well, he used the Liszt piece as the basis not only for the main melody of 'Came so Far', but also for the bridge melody. Hard to imagine that he did that unintentionally.
holydove wrote:Is the other song maybe The Tennessee Waltz? With a kind of zigzaggy connection to Johann Strauss II & the Blue Danube?
Good idea. But: no. :-)

I was thinking of 'Famous Blue Raincoat'.

In an interview, Leonard said about the melody of the chorus: 'they hired a musicologist, who said, that particular motif was in the public domain and, in fact, could be traced back as far as Schubert.'

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_I_Need_You

I haven't been able, though, to find a piece of Schubert that uses that motif. - Since at least some of you seem to be well-versed in classical music: Do you have any suggestions?
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B4real
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by B4real » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:43 am

Good morning, Hartmut and Rachel,

I remember that now! And I knew it was somewhere here on the Forum as well. Some interesting reading below in the links :)

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33329&p=322332&hili ... er#p322332
Musical Evolution

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34304&p=336802&hili ... er#p336802
Kris Kristofferson Interview

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5344&p=62381&hilit= ... yer#p62381
Globe and Mail Interview
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to B4real ~ me
Attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy ~ me ...... The magic of art is the truth of its lies ~ me ...... Only left-handers are in their right mind!
holydove
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by holydove » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:09 pm

Bev, thanks for digging up those links - esp. the fascinating article in the Globe & Mail from 2006 - I'm not sure I'd seen that before & it was a great read!

Hartmut, sorry, but I don't know of a Schubert piece that has that motif. But there are many Schubert pieces I'm not familiar with, as he has not been one of my favorite composers. He was extremely prolific - he wrote hundreds of pieces in his short life of only 31 years (sad. . .). I''ve listened to some of his string quartets (some of which I think are simply gorgeous - esp. Rosamunde - & some of which I don't love - & some have movements that I like & movements I don't like, but I'm sure you don't need that much info about my classical muscial preferences!); & I've learned a couple of his piano pieces, which I didn't like very much; but he composed over 600 lieders (shorter pieces of music - songs set to poems, also known as "art songs") & since I've had mixed feelings about his music, I've never explored those; however, I suspect the motif in question might be found in one of those, so now, thanks to you, I am inspired to explore them, & see if I can find that motif (well, I've also become curious about them. . .). So I don't have the info you are looking for at the moment, but if I find it someday, I will surely let you know (it might take a while, though, given the number of lieders he wrote. . .)! But thanks for the inspiration! :)

And now - a question which I think should be simple & easy: there is a particular flower which appears in 3 different songs & serves a different role, or function, in each song. Name the flower & the songs.
Last edited by holydove on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Goldin
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by Goldin » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:14 pm

Hartmut, Rachel, Bev - you are amazing! Thanks for all the links, it's all new for me.
Roman aka Hermitage Prisoner
Steven
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Re: L.C. Song Hunt

Post by Steven » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:23 pm

Hi holydove,

A rose appears in "Everybody Knows," "Famous Blue Raincoat" and "The Window."

P.S. A rose is also found in a fourth song: "The Traitor." In this song, rose is capitalized giving suggestion
that it could also be referring to a woman's name. The strength of that suggestion is lessened as "Swan"
is also capitalized. Seems to be intentionally ambiguous enough to allow people to experience the song with
whatever meaning works best for them.
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