'For Some, Sad Music Can Bring Happiness'

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
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Hartmut
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'For Some, Sad Music Can Bring Happiness'

Postby Hartmut » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:08 am

'For Some, Sad Music Can Bring Happiness'
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-a ... ness-74028

Interesting, isn't it?
holydove
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Re: 'For Some, Sad Music Can Bring Happiness'

Postby holydove » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:31 pm

That is very interesting, Hartmut - thank you for posting the link.

It's actually very much like the concept of homeopathy, where you ingest a substance that, in a healthy person, would create the symptoms that you have & that you you are trying to heal. Noone knows for sure how or why it works, but for many people, it does work. There are a couple of theories on how it works, & interestingly, one theory uses musical language in its description: it says that it's like using a tuning fork, & by ingesting something that consists of a vibration that resonates with the state you are in, a healing effect is produced. (Homeopathic remedies have very little material substance - they heal mostly through vibration.) Another theory says that perhaps when you ingest the homeopathic substance, you increase your symptoms just a little bit, & thereby stimulate the healing energies that already reside within your body. So essentially, instead of fighting the illness & its symptoms, the homeopathic system instructs you to go with it - ingest something that resonates at a similar frequency, maybe even increase it a bit.

So I think a similar thing can happen on an emotional level - when you are open to the experience of sad music & the beauty of expression within it, you are embracing your own sadness & the potential richness & beauty within it - maybe even increasing it by some degree - instead of trying to push it away; & from my personal experience, that does have a very therapeutic effect.
sarahtom
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Re: 'For Some, Sad Music Can Bring Happiness'

Postby sarahtom » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:54 pm

I think it just helps to know you're not alone in struggling with relationships and depression. Because so many present a false self to the world it can feel like everyone except you is successful in life and happy. Leonard highlights that they aren't. Its consoling, makes you feel like less of a failure.
Tchocolatl
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Re: 'For Some, Sad Music Can Bring Happiness'

Postby Tchocolatl » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:52 am

"There is no beautiful endings without beautiful mistakes" kind of a chinese cookie wisdom. :D Wisdom all in all anyway.

Not every ones are faking serenity and contentment in their life in general.

It is possible to enhance those feelings with the practice of appropriate exercises (which may be different for different people) on a regular basis. No need to stay sit in lotus position all day long, just put attention on the practice. And do all other things to enhance the health in general. Usually the mind is healthier in a healthy body. :D Just to walk 30-minute per day would be the equivalent of a "low" antidepressor pill, experts are saying. Not to speak about other benefit for health in general (cholesterol, etc.)
The researchers caution that the emotions aroused by music, and the ways people use music to adjust or enhance their mood, are complex and variable. They note that their own previous research has found “listening to sad music while feeling sad will intensify feelings of sadness for most people.”

However, that truism apparently does not apply to people who truly prize music for its aesthetic appeal. For such aficionados, losing yourself in a work of ethereal beauty—say, a Mahler symphony, or a great jazz player wailing the blues—is an effective strategy to transcend sadness.
The Leonard Cohen's songs that I like are comforting, not sad. I mean I do not resent them as sad.

I know somebody who feels that any quiet, or calm musics and songs are sad. When they are not at all, they are just quiet, calm. In the same way, silence is often intolerable as the mind is let to itself, so to speak and all the thaughs and feelings became visible, so to speak.

I know another person for whom any emotional music or song are sad, even when the feelings expressed are anything but sadness and are deep expression of other poignant feelings.

Coping with feelings like sadness, fear, anger is part of everyday life of the majority. To acknowledge feelings is a necessity, in the intimity of the mind, to know what to do best - otherwise, if they are "pushed under" (repressed), they usually control from the unconscious. All those feelings are useful to choose which action is the best under the circumstances. It is not necessary to show them or to act them spontaneously, just to acknowledge them. To welcome them. Emotions are like little children. They need to be take care of, and now, but they must not "boss the whole business". When they are well taken care of they are healthy creatures. They are life.

People are not a failure because they experience difficulties.

P.S. Also, emotions are usually the product of thoughts. Those thougts can be true, false, or questionable. Sometimes to check if what we are thinking that produces certain emotions is true, false or questionable may help for experiencing serenity. See Albert Ellis for more details about these kinds of mental exercises :

http://www.threeminutetherapy.com/rebt.html

By now, I feel that this post looks a bit like a "free consultation". No, it is not. I am not a specialist. I just chat. 8) (life as usual)
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
sarahtom
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Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:00 pm

Re: 'For Some, Sad Music Can Bring Happiness'

Postby sarahtom » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:33 pm

Thank you. I do actually practice mindfulness and find it very helpful.

I probably wrote my post too quickly and didnt explain...of course many people are in fact truly content- what I meant was that many people with depression etc dont show this to the world for fear of judgement, irritation etc (which can be accurate at times) and so it helps to hear someone being open about their struggles- helps reduce the sense of isolation. Leonard Cohen keeps me going in my lowest times! Im not the only one who cant acheive a successful long term relationship!

Thanks again.
Tchocolatl
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm

Re: 'For Some, Sad Music Can Bring Happiness'

Postby Tchocolatl » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:35 pm

Ah! Now I see better what you meant. But I still don't understand 8). There is too much questions about this affirmation. But you don't have to answer this, I send this "in the air".

First. There is a lot of frustations to endure in a long term relationship. We live in a society where everybody has rights, but no duties, which people born in a society of rights considered restrictive to their liberty.

"And your pleasures are the sceals" - Story of the Streets, Leonard Cohen

Second. Does a successful long term relationship as it is "sold" is real? I don't think so. People think about this as a Fairy Tail. Utopia. The Hapiness of Hapiness wich will filled all their feelings of emptiness. False idea.

Third. People put too much expectations on this utopia. When they are effectively engaged, they burn the couple with abusive emotional demands which should have been directed elsewhere : schools, jobs, society structures, etc. etc.

And 4th, Ellis is not my guru as I don't share his philosophy (entirely), but I like that quote :
People could rationally decide that prolonged relationships take up too much time and effort and that they'd much rather do other kinds of things. But most people are afraid of rejection.
Albert Ellis
I add : when this lifestyle is perceived as the social norms.


*
Leonard Cohen seems to me very good in long term relationshipS.
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
sarahtom
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Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:00 pm

Re: 'For Some, Sad Music Can Bring Happiness'

Postby sarahtom » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:40 pm

I guess, with regards to lc success, it would depend on how you define it. Only he could answer that , I am just going from his songs, interviews and biography. In any case he certainly sings about the struggles in relationships, which comforts me as I can relate to it. I agree with what you say about expectations in relationships. In don't think that's the only kind of problem that can exist though, as lc has sung about many times. But yes, its a popular problem!
Tchocolatl
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm

Re: 'For Some, Sad Music Can Bring Happiness'

Postby Tchocolatl » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:33 am

I would not use the word "failure" to define anything Leonard Cohen, if only one thing is certain. :)

Struggles in relationships. Well. Maybe you can read "Why men Love Bitches" 8) if you just turned 13 years old and are living in North America. But hurray because women are loosing the scrap of civil rights they have hardly gained on these recent years - at light speed. Soon, the struggles in relationships will be resolved : men would regain all the rights to beat them, kill them, steal at them, in a nutshell to do them anything a master can do to its slave. Enjoy!

OK.

There is struggles in any kind of democratic relationships. What is not normal is to never find a correct common ground, and to have quarrels all the time about anything.
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers

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