The Future

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
George.Wright
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Post by George.Wright »

Nice one, Paula
i like your quote
and very apt
Georges
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Kush
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Post by Kush »

Paula & George,
This topic seems to periodically crop up on this board on various threads.
I guess its something to do with LC searching for answers and people who listen to him (and other writers of the ilk) doing the same...pondering over imponderables.
If you are so inclined let me take the liberty of recommending a couple of books by physicist Carl Sagan - he was also searching for answers and his writing style is as intoxicating as Cohen's although from a vastly different perspective. The difference is that he constantly attempts to provide some data as the backbone to his speculative theories. His books challenge the intellect without being at all technical.

1. Cosmos (the basis for the documentary TV series of the same name)
2. Shadows of our Forgotten Ancestors : A Search for Who We Are (written with anthropologist Ann Druyan, also his wife).
3. Broca's Brain : Reflections on the Romance of Science.
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Paula
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Post by Paula »

I have to admit Kush I have never heard of Carl Sagar I have checked him out on the net and he does have some good theories based on fact. I will see if I can get something written by him to read.
George.Wright
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Post by George.Wright »

Thanks for your info, Kush
Georges
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Kush
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Post by Kush »

Dr. Sagan was a Pulitzer Prize winning author with training in both astronomy and biology. His writing is easily accessible to every one - in fact he had made it his mission to popularize science for the masses, not just a few academics.
I am presently reading Shadows of..... and from the inside front cover this review pops out

" It has sex. It has humor. It has drama. It's what people go to movies for."


Cohen has always looked for answers in mysterious scriptures and texts (I Ching, Buddhist Koans, religious texts etc etc). If that works for him, well and good. For myself, I need something a little more tangible, a little more updated. And more appropriate to formulate the right questions first.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Okay, I'm going to need to revisit the song in its entirety. Taking a couple lines out of context doesn't get it. However, when I've sung along with the lines, "You know who I am / I've stared at the sun / for I am the one / who loves changing / from nothing to one....." ~ quite apart from all that's been said here ~ I've taken the "I' to be Leonard himself and those lines being a love song saying that, just as he's lifted his face to the rain, he's likewise lifted it to the sun, and that alone, he considers himself "nothing," yet in relationship with another, he finds completion and changes from nothing to become "one." As in, "Remember me? You know "who"/how I am...." That's the image I've always gotten from those particular lines. As I said, I'll need to review them in context.
~Lizzytysh
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Jo
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The Future

Post by Jo »

Good grief....and here I'm just sitting back enjoying the beat :wink:

Has anyone heard of/read 'The Waiting Country' by Mike Nicol?

Here's a little extract re The Future in particular, but Cohen's work in general:

'Because there is this about him: he can stare unblinking into disorder. He looks and records what he sees and returns to report to us with beguiling melodies and seductive background voices overlaid by his bass incantations. And we must listen because we know there is a message here we cannot afford to miss. We listen to the sadness in the voice and understand it does not issue from a man who wallows in misery. It does not come from a pessimist. It is bleak, it is sometimes touched by despair but it is always sung out of a deep compassion. For Cohen is no Isiah, no St. John the Divine: he does not bring us glimpses of the apocaplypse; rather he is describing how we live and the consequences of how we live. He realises that there is little sense in going beyond this. He appreciates that the most that can be done to retain some humanity in the noise and chaos at the end of the millenium is to report and describe. But, of course, it is the way this is done, today's subtext, that counts as well. Because Cohen is truly subversive. Through the arrangement of a tambourine, a drum, a violin and the sweetness of the backing voices, he can gently mock his own words and gently mock those of us who hear them. Here is the edge, the ambiguity and the enigma. What he would call the "Awful Truth" that "isn't worth a dime". And so in the beautiful elegy "Anthem", he sings of the repetition of history and how we continue to ignore the signs that could avert our suffering. Until, with a chorus backed by the Los Angeles Mass Choir, he offers a paradox that is painful:
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
Which is how it happens. Which is how we have brief moments of grace even in the midst of violence. ... And in Cohen's sung chorus there is a consolation that cannot be found in the words alone. They need the music and the choir and his voice of rust to arrive at what one reviewer called a "quotidian valour", or, put another way, our recurring, daily bravery.'

Sorry - that was longer than I remembered.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Hi Jo,

I've never read or heard of the book, but I found what you've quoted to be very unique and interesting commentary on Leonard's work. I hadn't consider the "ring the bells" refrain from this particular perspective [italics mine], "And in Cohen's sung chorus there is a consolation that cannot be found in the words alone. They need the music and the choir and his voice of rust...." Thanks for finding and getting it all in here.

~Lizzytysh
jurica
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Post by jurica »

hi,

i like the album (future) a lot. can't help it. it has something of a punk-style rebelion in it.

the track 'closing time' remindes me of the waste land by t.s. eliot... the part in burial of the dead where women have their hollow conversations while waiter hurries them - HURRY UP PLEASE, IT'S TIME. and i think that's the best track on album. it's very grim and ironic - take the last verse for example - a masterpiece of irony!

i think this is anything but usual leonard record, but that don't make it junk!
Aisling
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Post by Aisling »

*laugh* Good call, I like this album too.
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Boss
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Post by Boss »

Imagine Leonard's 'Future' as the template, then imagine worldwide change. That is where he leads the listener. This album is the most inspirational collection of song I have, and will ever, come across. It is prophesy, it is hope. And, it is about two desperate lovers. Far from being just a bunch of songs with no unifying theme, it is a cleverly crafted story. Although released 15 years ago, The Future becomes more pertinent, more vital, for all of us, with each passing day.
lazariuk
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Post by lazariuk »

I agree with you very strongly Adam
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daka
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Re: The Future

Post by daka »

I love the future. I do not think it is dark or black. It would be black and dark if it did NOT describe the horrid and scary state of our planet and our societies... if he sang only about the sunsets, silly little love songs, and little atypical human gems that occasionally catch our attention and give us hope that we can one day make samsara right... fix the planet... die healthy etc. Leonard has so much integrity that he just can't do that.

To understand Leonard's lyrics we have to remember that he is a rather committed Buddhist and by his own admission, has been a Buddhist for thirty years. We can therefore conclude a few things about his powerful and controversial lyrics:

1. They are congruent with the general Buddhist view of our unfortunate existence (samsara).. it is black, painful, pessimistic, selfish, deluded and something to be escaped from. This is the driving force behind anyone who is seriously practicing Buddhism... renunciation... renouncing uncontrolled rebirth (or a return ticket). When we complain about this style of describing our existence, when we want something else we are in a kind of unfortunate, misguided and unhelpful denial. From this perspective, for a Buddhist, Leonard's lyrics paradoxically, are affirming and optimistic. It is not "music to suicide by" but music to optimistically affirm life and liberation.

2. I too have noted Leonard's comments on abortion. and I think that they too
must be understood within his undeniably Buddhist belief system. Buddhists are pacifists, they do not believe in any form of murder, and will starve before killing an animal for food. Buddhists also regard the animal realm and human realm as equals in that a migratory mind has manifested within that body and life form. Just as western Christians are horrified at the thought of killing a human for food, a Buddhist is horrified at the thought of killing a shrimp for food. Therefore for a Buddhist killing men, shrimps, and foetuses is equally wrong. Buddhists believe that the "person" comes into existence at the moment of conception and cannot comprehend the "first three-months-not-human" bit There is also another point to be made about Leonard's comment "we don't like children anyhow". Although this is not true for all people who abort it is true for some.... some mums and some dads, and Leonard is simply pointing at our motivation for abortion and also at our "wrong view" about human life. In Buddhist beliefs interfering with any living being's lifespan is simply not OK.

I don't mean to be teaching Buddhism here but if I contribute to these discussions, being a Buddhist, and being a monk I have no choice but to offer these opinions about the influence of Leonard's Buddhism on his lyrics, especially in the last 10 years.

Daka
If you become the ocean you will not become seasick....Jikan (aka Leonard Cohen)

It's comin' from the feel that this ain't exactly real, or it's real, but it ain't exactly there! . Jikan
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