Death of a Ladies Man

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
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lightasabreeze
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Death of a Ladies Man

Post by lightasabreeze » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:33 pm

After reading a comment from 'holydove' regarding the 'Death of a Ladies Man'. I listened again to the tracks as it is not one I play as much as the others. Yes. it is different, but I wondered what newcomers who only recently discovered Leonard think of his style on this, and indeed his early years.
I have no problem with 'Death of a Ladies Man', and it is pure nostalgia that makes me listen to his early songs, although I do prefer Leonard's softer tones.
But then .. I am a woman...
Somebody must have died for you
A Thousand Kisses Deep

London 02 x 3..... Radio city New York... Wet Weybridge..... Wembley Arena... Brighton..
MaryB
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by MaryB » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:22 am

I too am a woman and yet one of the songs that I am now enjoying is LC's rendition of 'Tonight Will be Fine' from the Isle of Wight with all his yelling/screaming it out :roll: :D . I am one of the individuals that does like DOALM and Ten New Songs - both of which are not everyone's cup of tea on this forum - quite a conundrum. There are gems in all his CDs, whether it's a complete song or just a line or phrase and I appreciate every single one of them. Yes, DrHGuy, I am suffering from CPD :roll: and I like it.

Kindest regards,
Mary
1993 Detroit 2008 Kitchener June 2-Hamilton June 3 & 4-Vienna Sept 24 & 25-London RAH Nov 17 2009 NYC Feb 19-Grand Prairie Apr 3-Phoenix Apr 5-Columbia May 11-Red Rocks Jun 4-Barcelona Sept 21-Columbus Oct 27-Las Vegas Nov 12-San Jose Nov 13 2010 Sligo Jul 31 & Aug 1-LV Dec 10 & 11 2012 Paris Sept 30-London Dec 11-Boston Dec 16 2013 Louisville Mar 30-Amsterdam Sept 20
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lightasabreeze
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by lightasabreeze » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:25 pm

I agree Mary. I too like the Tonight Will Be Fine from I.O.W.
Sometimes it is hard to believe that is is the same LC we are hearing, but every now and then you get that special
sound - and you know - !!
Somebody must have died for you
A Thousand Kisses Deep

London 02 x 3..... Radio city New York... Wet Weybridge..... Wembley Arena... Brighton..
holydove
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by holydove » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:53 pm

The reason I don't like Death of a Ladies' Man, is not lack of softness. There is alot in Leonard's early albums that is not soft - especially in Songs of Love & Hate: i.e., not only Tonight Will Be Fine, but Diamonds in the Mine, Sing Another Song Boys, and ESPECIALLY Dress Rehearsal Rag. Even on the first album, I wouldn't exactly call Stories of the Street or Teachers, soft. What I'm saying is I also absolutely LOVE when Leonard screams it out in that rough, raspy, howling voice - really belting it from the gut - I think that is extemely beautiful, passionate, & sexy.
I love everything Leonard has ever done with his gorgeous golden voice.

What I can't stand about Death of a Ladies' Man is that, not only does Spector's "wall of sound" intrude on & practically drown out Leonard's beautiful voice, but the so-called musical arrangement represents, shall we say, a kind of musicality that I don't find particularly musical, & because, on top of that, it intrudes on, instead of complementing, Leonard's voice, I find it jarring & offensive.

Just thought I would clarify my "position" on this . . .

Happy New Year, everyone. . .
John Etherington
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by John Etherington » Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:57 am

As I've said before, I fully embraced "Death of a Ladies Man" at the time of its release, and accept it for the weird hybrid that it is. However, I find it strange that Spector could take such a sympathetic approach with regards to his production of the John Lennon - Plastic Ono Band album, but not with Leonard's album. Spector's production on tracks like "Iodine" is more like that on Lennon's "Instant Karma" , which he also produced (and which did work).

Happy New Year! John E
MaryB
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by MaryB » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:55 pm

So many of us have said over and over again - it would be wonderful to have DOALM re-done without the 'wall of sound'. Of course, I would never give up my original, even though as you have said holydove, Spector's production drowns out LC's voice - a pox on Spector, I say. I still have a perverse sense of pleasure when I listen to it. Maybe because the sound was such a departure from what we had been used to. These same abrupt changes in sound occured with IYM and then again with DH & 10NS. We adapt to these changes, some instantly, others with repeated listenings, because of the beauty of the words.
1993 Detroit 2008 Kitchener June 2-Hamilton June 3 & 4-Vienna Sept 24 & 25-London RAH Nov 17 2009 NYC Feb 19-Grand Prairie Apr 3-Phoenix Apr 5-Columbia May 11-Red Rocks Jun 4-Barcelona Sept 21-Columbus Oct 27-Las Vegas Nov 12-San Jose Nov 13 2010 Sligo Jul 31 & Aug 1-LV Dec 10 & 11 2012 Paris Sept 30-London Dec 11-Boston Dec 16 2013 Louisville Mar 30-Amsterdam Sept 20
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sturgess66
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by sturgess66 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:02 pm

There is a review by Michael Doherty dated February of the album - here -

http://folkmusic.suite101.com/article.c ... ladies-man

And I would print out the article here but for this notice at the end - :lol:
The copyright of the article Leonard Cohen: "Death Of A Ladies' Man" in Folk Music is owned by Michael Doherty. Permission to republish Leonard Cohen: "Death Of A Ladies' Man" in print or online must be granted by the author in writing.

Read more at Suite101: Leonard Cohen: "Death Of A Ladies' Man": The 1977 Release That Is Ignored By Many http://folkmusic.suite101.com/article.c ... z0exdDLR30
Parsifal
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by Parsifal » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:42 am

John Etherington wrote:As I've said before, I fully embraced "Death of a Ladies Man" at the time of its release, and accept it for the weird hybrid that it is. However, I find it strange that Spector could take such a sympathetic approach with regards to his production of the John Lennon - Plastic Ono Band album, but not with Leonard's album. Spector's production on tracks like "Iodine" is more like that on Lennon's "Instant Karma" , which he also produced (and which did work).

Happy New Year! John E
I agree. POB is a strange record to come from Spector, in that it sounds so raw and spartan.

I believe that DOALM represented an attempted by Martin Machat to reinvigorate the careers of Spector and Cohen (both of whom were his clients), but I don't think anyone would claim it was a total success. I'd file it under 'interesting failure'.
holydove
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by holydove » Sun May 01, 2011 6:25 pm

Because I have previously posted negative comments about the album DOALM, I feel compelled to report this change in my perception & feelings about this album. After years of not even listening to the album, & upon the encouragement of a very dear friend (you know who you are!), I re-listened to the album through earphones, and - MY OH MY - it's BEAUTIFUL!! It is not news that the lyrics are beautiful, profound, & amazing as ever, but the earphones make Leonard's voice more audible & Leonard's singing is as heart-melting, mind-blowing, moving & gorgeous as ever!; the melodies are all hauntingly beautiful; there are still several moments where I would prefer - shall we say - a smaller orchestra, but in essence, the musical arrangements are rather interesting & beautiful, & most of the time, the orchestration doesn't seem intrusive or overwhelming, as it did in the past. I am looking forward to hearing this "new" album again. . .& again. . .

So I would like to apologize to anyone who was disturbed by my negative comments; & I apologize to Mr. Phil Spector; & I especially need to apologize to Mr. Leonard Cohen, who poured his beautiful golden voice & heart into these stunning lyrics & melodies, as truly & beautifully as ever - I am so sorry for not being able to appreciate it before, & so grateful for this unexpected revelation!

So I guess my Spectorphobia is gone (??!!) - what an interesting surprise. . .
MaryB
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by MaryB » Sun May 01, 2011 6:30 pm

Yeah Rachel!! What are your favorites on this album?
1993 Detroit 2008 Kitchener June 2-Hamilton June 3 & 4-Vienna Sept 24 & 25-London RAH Nov 17 2009 NYC Feb 19-Grand Prairie Apr 3-Phoenix Apr 5-Columbia May 11-Red Rocks Jun 4-Barcelona Sept 21-Columbus Oct 27-Las Vegas Nov 12-San Jose Nov 13 2010 Sligo Jul 31 & Aug 1-LV Dec 10 & 11 2012 Paris Sept 30-London Dec 11-Boston Dec 16 2013 Louisville Mar 30-Amsterdam Sept 20
holydove
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by holydove » Sun May 01, 2011 9:46 pm

Thank you, Mary!

At the moment, I would say: Paper Thin Hotel & Iodine. What about you?

Also: I always loved the title song (DOALM), even before the revelation, & it's still one of my favorites!
MaryB
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by MaryB » Mon May 02, 2011 6:03 pm

Rachel,

It's gotta be 'Memories' and 'Don't Go Home..' because his sense of humor shines in these and also 'Fingerprints' because of the country flavor (and look, they're all uptempo - guess that comes into play also). These are followed by 'Iodine' and 'I Left a Woman Waiting'. You know what? I really like them all. It's like with any LC song, the more you listen to it, the more you discover, and then they all become favorites. Just wish I could get past the echo chamber wall of sound. I try real hard to ignore it and focus on the essence of LC, but sometimes it does come into the forefront.

I'm so glad you have discovered the merits of this album :D

Warmest regards,
Mary
1993 Detroit 2008 Kitchener June 2-Hamilton June 3 & 4-Vienna Sept 24 & 25-London RAH Nov 17 2009 NYC Feb 19-Grand Prairie Apr 3-Phoenix Apr 5-Columbia May 11-Red Rocks Jun 4-Barcelona Sept 21-Columbus Oct 27-Las Vegas Nov 12-San Jose Nov 13 2010 Sligo Jul 31 & Aug 1-LV Dec 10 & 11 2012 Paris Sept 30-London Dec 11-Boston Dec 16 2013 Louisville Mar 30-Amsterdam Sept 20
holydove
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by holydove » Tue May 03, 2011 4:55 pm

Hi Mary,

Yes, I was going to add Memories to my list of favorites - I love that one too, esp. having seen/heard the live performances - it's so incredibly hilarious & seductive - but then I realized that if I added that one, I would have named half the songs on the album; & I also wanted to mention I Left A Woman Waiting, because I LOVE how Leonard speaks/chants the first verse - that, as well as the melody & lyrics, are so beautiful - but then I would have named MORE than half the songs on the album!! Plus, I've had Fingerprints going through my head the past couple of days, & before that, I was walking around the house singing, ". . . you can't shake it (or break it)/ with your Motown/ you can't melt it down in the rain"(good thing noone else was home when I was doing that). And I must say, I also really love True Love Leaves No Traces - it's so sweet & tender & mystifying, & the melody is so lovely. (I was trying not to name half the songs, & now I have named ALL the songs on the album!) So. . . although Iodine & Paper Thin Hotel are the ones I long to hear the most, right now - what you said is RIGHT ON - I really love all the songs & they have all become my favorites already!!

I hear what you are saying about that wall of sound; at least it is less prominent in some of the songs. But that's why it would be so wonderful if Leonard would do a re-make of that album, in his own incomparable, unique, exquisite style!! Given how the beauty of the songs comes through, even with the Spectorian wall of sound (though for some people, it may take over 30 years to perceive it - LOL!!) - just imagine how beautiful those songs would be, without the intrusion of the Manic Spectorian Overdrive!!
MaryB
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by MaryB » Tue May 03, 2011 9:22 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: That's why when you asked which was my favorite, I had to name three, then four, then all of them.

I have sung the same song on this forum over and over - please remake that album without 'the wall of noise'. When you see and hear videos of these songs when he has performed them in concert, they truly become an LC song and not an LC song produced by Spector. Spector is so prevelant in the studio album that it takes away from the beauty of the words and melodies. Makes no difference, I still love this album and despair when it is dismissed because of Spector's over-production.

Like you, one convert at a time :D
1993 Detroit 2008 Kitchener June 2-Hamilton June 3 & 4-Vienna Sept 24 & 25-London RAH Nov 17 2009 NYC Feb 19-Grand Prairie Apr 3-Phoenix Apr 5-Columbia May 11-Red Rocks Jun 4-Barcelona Sept 21-Columbus Oct 27-Las Vegas Nov 12-San Jose Nov 13 2010 Sligo Jul 31 & Aug 1-LV Dec 10 & 11 2012 Paris Sept 30-London Dec 11-Boston Dec 16 2013 Louisville Mar 30-Amsterdam Sept 20
beatingthelilies
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Re: Death of a Ladies Man

Post by beatingthelilies » Thu May 26, 2011 7:32 am

I rather enjoy Spector's Wall of Sound on this album. It is a stark contrast to Cohen's dark lyrics. It is reminiscent of Cohen's voice and female back-up singers. They compliment each other nicely.
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