Lover, Lover, Lover & Rumi

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
holydove
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Re: Lover, Lover, Lover & Rumi

Post by holydove »

I recently heard the unusual version of this song (mentioned above by TineDoes), in a recording from Copenhagen '79; I was so captivated by it (& Leonard sings it so beautifully & passionately!), so I went back & re-listened to the Frankfurt '79 recording; those 2 versions are very similar, with only slight variations.

This is what I hear in the Frankfurt '79 version:

I asked my father, I said, "Father, change my name
The one I'm using now is covered up in fear & filth & cowardice & shame"
"I will not change your name", he said, "it is my human word
Your name is mine", he said, "but you repeat it like a mockingbird"

Lover lover lover. . .come back to me (chorus)

He said, "I locked you in this body, I meant it as a kind of trial
You can use it as a weapon, or to make some woman smile
And (Aah?) my judgment never falters, it is written in the heart
Peace to those who be with me, suffering apart"

Chorus

And do not trust my holy one, or the wonders you have seen
My very angels are in error, my very heavens are unclean
The world is mine, & there is only me
And there is nothing that is not my world,
My broken world, my broken world, my whole reality

Chorus

You may come to me in happiness, you may come to me in grief
You may come to me in your deepest faith, or you may come in your coldest disbelief
In your armour of indifference, in your alibis of state ( "space?")
In your balance (imbalance?) of neutrality, in your poverty of grace

Chorus

In the Copenhagenn version, 3rd line 1st verse, I hear:

He said, "I cannot change your name ___?__________ a human word (I can't discern what comes after "name" & before "a human word")

So this line has the only potentially significant differences: "I cannot" instead of "I will not"; & the missing words don't sound like "it is my. . .", so I don't know if that difference is significant or not.

About the 3rd & 4th lines, 1st verse ( I will not (cannot) change your name. . .etc.): all the religions/spiritual paths I know of (inc. Judaism/Kabbalah, Christianity, Sufism, Hinduism, Buddhism. . .) have practices where the practitioner is instructed to repeat words that are considered "names of God" in Western religion, & mantras in Eastern religions/philosophies; it's said that mantras consist of vibrations that have the power to bring one closer to the source of creation; in Judaism/Kabbalah, it's said that the name of God contains the very essence of God, & therefore, by repeating it, a person can become one with the Source. But ultimately, according to both Eastern & Western teachings, the practice can only work if one repeats the name with love for God (or the Source, etc.) in one's heart. Conversely, if one's heart is filled with a "very high degree" of love, all words are names of God ("there's a blaze of light in every word"), & whatever word such an enlightened person utters, will have the same effect as a mantra/name of God. In the above-mentioned lyrics ("your name is mine, he said, but you repeat it like a mockingbird"), my interpretation is that the narrator's "Father" is saying that the narrator's name is not different or separate from the name of God, because noone is separate - it is one "whole reality" ("there is nothing that is not my world/ my broken world. . .my whole reality"; in the Copenhagen version, that line sounds like: "there is nothing that I'm not, my world, my one reality"); however, the narrator is repeating the name "like a mockingbird" - just mimicking it, without that feeling of love in his heart, or the awareness that his "name"/essence & God's "name"/essence are one & the same. So the word "word" (though it could also be "work") - in the phrase "human word"- makes sense to me, as it seems to be supported by the rest of the lyrics in the verse. Interesting also, that now Leonard gives us "in every atom/ broken is the Name" & "Blessed is the Name". . .)
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TineDoes
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Re: Lover, Lover, Lover & Rumi

Post by TineDoes »

Rachel Holydove,
In the Rasky film, The Song of Leonard Cohen, I think that he also sings this version of Lover Lover Lover. I heard it and was facinated by it. Yes, he sings it so passionately, you almost feel his pain. Like you I spent hours listening to the different '79 versions and wrote out the words. 3 variations. This is his Paris version. 22-10-1979:

I asked my father, I said, "Father change my name.
"The one I'm using now it's covered up with fear and filth and cowardice and shame.
“I cannot change your name” he said, He said, “it is my human work” (I hear 'work' iso 'word')
“Your name is mine” he said Though you may repeat it like a mocking bird.

Lover lover lover...

He said, "I locked you in this body, I meant it as a kind of trial.
You can use it as a weapon, or to make some woman smile."
He said, “my judgment never falters” It is written in the heart
Peace to those who be with me, Suffering apart.

Lover lover lover...

He said “now do not trust my holy one” Or the wonders you have seen
My angels are in error, My very heavens are unclean
The world is mine he said, There is only me
There is nothing that is not my world, my perfect world, My one Reality

Lover, lover, lover.....

You may come to me in happiness And you may come to me in grief
You may come to me in deepest faith Or you may come in disbelief
In your (grunt)armor of indifference In your alibi’s of state(?)
In your balance of neutrality In your poverty of grace

Lover, Lover,.....

Then there is also a Hamburg version. Here are some of the variations that I hear:
1st verse:
“Your name is mine” he said
Don't you repeat it like a mocking bird
No 2nd verse
3rd verse:
And there is nothing that is not my one
My one reality
4th verse:
In the armor of indifference
In the alibi’s of greed
In the im)balance of neutrality
In the poverty of grace

Thank you and Mat for your interpretations and references.

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhum
Tineke
"There’s no forsaking what you love ...."

Rotterdam 2008; Antwerpen, Dublin 2009; Gent 2x, Lille , Las Vegas 2x 2010, Gent, Amsterdam, Dublin 2x 2012, Antwerp, Berlin, Rotterdam 2013
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mat james
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Re: Lover, Lover, Lover & Rumi

Post by mat james »

Oh! no problem Tineke. It is always my pleasure to talk things Leonard with his "lovers" ;-)
I have a few more ideas regarding the subject of this thread.

holydove says:
“So this line has the only potentially significant differences: "I cannot" instead of "I will not"; & the missing words don't sound like "it is my. . .", so I don't know if that difference is significant or not.
… In the above-mentioned lyrics ("your name is mine, he said, but you repeat it like a mockingbird"), my interpretation is that the narrator's "Father" is saying that the narrator's name is not different or separate from the name of God, because no-one is separate - it is one "whole reality" ("there is nothing that is not my world/ my broken world. . .my whole reality";
The line, “your name is mine”
Or perhaps: “your name is (the same as) mine” may be inferred and it could be the name “lover” that Leonard is referring to when he sings “your name is mine” and not the other given names that gods and humans take on; like Leonard or Jehovah. The only common name in this song that represents either party is the word “lover”.
And as we know, in any loving relationship both parties may refer to each other as “lover”.
Perhaps this is why the chorus is simply a "chant"; Lover lover lover lover lover lover, come back to me.”

In “Paper thin hotel” Leonard refers to “the grunt of unity when he came in” and I suggest that the line “Peace to those who be with me, suffering apart” is saying that after Unity, there can only be separation resulting in the observation:
“…My broken world, my broken world, my whole reality”, The world of the opposites, the fruit from the tree of "knowledge of good and evil", beyond Paradise and "East of Eden" to the world as we know it; dynamic unfolding differentiation. I would suggest Leonard is contemplating the Neoplatonic concept of "Undifferentiated Unity"; "the flight of the alone to the Alone."

And by the way, a mocking bird is an excellent mimic and will copy the sounds/names/words of other birds and chant away pretending it is that other species, I suppose. Maybe Leonard is suggesting in this song that we should just stick to one name that is universal (in the English language at least) in its intimacy; the word/name “Lover” .

And iso says:
“It is all too easy to infer the entire meaning from the lyrics and ignore what is going on in the music. BUt this is not only a poem, but also a song.”
Iso; with regard to the “music” factor; Leonard does occasionally grunt in his songs and maybe he is “grunting to Unity”. 8)
As you can see, I love that line, “the grunt of Unity”. I did a write-up on the song "Paper Thin Hotel" on the thread linked below.
You may like to take a read and comment.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25541

Lover lover lover lover lover lover lover, come..........back to Unity.
"The grunt of unity" when He came in..."

MatbbgJ
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
holydove
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Re: Lover, Lover, Lover & Rumi

Post by holydove »

Hi Mat - thank you for your interpretations. I would agree that part of the implication of ". . . but (or don't, etc.) you repeat it like a mockingbird", could be that one should stick to one name; the fact that mockingbirds have many songs/sounds in their repertoire (commonly 30 - 40 songs, & sometimes up to 200!), & they repeat those songs in very rapid succession (they've been heard to repeat up to 4 songs in the space of 7 seconds, even though each song is repeated 2 or 3 times), would seem to support that idea. (Mockingbirds also mimic insects, amphibian sounds, & sometimes mechanical noises, BTW). And I love your suggestion that the one name being referred to could be "Lover" - that's certainly a beautiful possibility thank you!!

Mockingbirds are excellent mimics, like you mentioned, & they also sing very beautifully; I did a little reading on the topic, & it's been said that the vocal mimicry trait indicates that lyrical flow is an especially potent aphrodisiac in the world of mockingbirds; & some males will warble & whine all night long when they are unable to find a mate. Perhaps, again, the implication being that rather than trying to seduce the Lover, with a multitude of "love songs", it might behoove the heart/soul that is longing for unity, to discover the one song/name that works, & stay with it.

Tineke: thank you for the additional versions of the song that you provided - very interesting! And yes, Leonard's performance of the song in Harry Rasky's film was the first time I heard that version of the song, & that's when I fell in love with it. I haven't seen that film in a long time, & your mentioning of it has inspired me to have another look at it!
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mat james
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Re: Lover, Lover, Lover & Rumi

Post by mat james »

Funny thing,
I received this thread up-date (holydove's comment above) only this morning and yet it was posted on May the 1st!!!
I wonder if it has been to "god and back" in that cyber-time-loss? ;-)

Mat
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
holydove
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Location: Connecticut

Re: Lover, Lover, Lover & Rumi

Post by holydove »

mat james wrote:Funny thing,
I received this thread up-date (holydove's comment above) only this morning and yet it was posted on May the 1st!!!
I wonder if it has been to "god and back" in that cyber-time-loss? ;-)

Mat

Hey, Mat - that is quite a funny thing! And what an interesting speculation that it has been to "god and back" in the interim! If so, maybe god (whoever/whatever that may be) will post a response for us here. . .
sebmelmoth2003
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:41 pm

Re: Lover, Lover, Lover & Rumi

Post by sebmelmoth2003 »

leonard track referenced in something understood-bbc radio 4.

The poetry of the Persian mystic, considered the first Whirling Dervish, is still popular 800 years after his death. Mark Tully considers the reasons for his enduring appeal...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08295y8
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mat james
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Re: Lover, Lover, Lover & Rumi

Post by mat james »

sebmelmoth!
what a beautiful, refreshing link. Thanks xxx
Matbbgj
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
sebmelmoth2003
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Rumi the musical

Post by sebmelmoth2003 »

more rumi from sunday on bbc radio 4 regarding a new musical - wateresd down scented candle sufi version acconding to professor.

begins 29 minutes approx into programme.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0011rmb

https://londoncoliseum.org/whats-on/rumi-the-musical/
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