Breaking Out Into RAP Music

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
YankovicGretzky
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Breaking Out Into RAP Music

Post by YankovicGretzky » Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:11 pm

Do any of you ever feel like some of Leonard Cohen's songs could be turned into RAP. It just feels like there's a Rap song dieing to come out of "Closing Time" or even "Democracy" and "The Future"

What's that saying about the connection between Folk and Rap?

Rap music is the _______ of Folk music.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:33 pm

the Son, the Daughter, the Child?

the Grandchild?

the New Age?

the New Millenium?

the .....?

the .....?

What's the saying? I've never heard it.
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peter danielsen
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Rap Cohen

Post by peter danielsen » Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:05 pm

I totally agree with the view that many LC songs could be turned into Rap. I think it would be an interesting idea if LC let for example Enimen produce an new record.

Also I dont understand why no one has remixed any of Cohens song: first we take manhatten, avalance, everybody knows, and lots more could be remixed with just as great results as for example bob marley has been.


Peter
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Makera
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Post by Makera » Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:16 pm

Yankovic~
The answer to that, as far as I'm concerned, would have to be "Rap is the 'bastard' of Folk music" - as the mildest term I can think of, without getting too scatalogical! :roll:

~Makera
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:17 pm

I get the impression you don't care for Rap, Makera.
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Post by username » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:46 pm

I've always thought the exact same thing, and with those songs in particular. I think I could be done. Beck is famous for have creating a mix between rap and blues/folk. Listen to the Beck song "Loser" or "Hotwax" and you will seem hear him rapping to an acoustic blues guitar riff. Or the song "one foot in the grave" where he is rapping to just a harmonica. Beck should produce a Leonard Cohen album....now that would be interesting.
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Heretic
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Post by Heretic » Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:11 pm

Music cannot be considered in isolation of it's origins.
Rap is like country music.
It comes from poor people who have suffered.
Be it inner city project, or desperate rural poverty.
It is the music of pain.
That is why it is painful to listen to.
It is written by simple people.
Simple people with only one thing to say - "I have suffered"
That is why it all sounds the same.
To compare this detritus to the work of the master is blasphemy.
And i should know.
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Kush
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Post by Kush » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:08 pm

Too much sophistication ain't good for you. There is the danger of losing integrity in the music. While I'm not so familiar with rap, country music and more recently blues is my kind of music. Anything that strikes a chord with the masses has to be right.
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lightning
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Post by lightning » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:14 am

Heretic,
A great New York DJ once said "All music is folk music." Are we not all folk? "Snob" cames from an abbreviation of "Sine nobilitatis", without nobility. I have heard people criticize opera and other music forms with "it all sounds the same." Do you really believe that poverty is the only source of suffering? Then are riches the only souce of well-being? How modest of you not to capitalize the "i" when refering to yourself.
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Post by Byron » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:37 am

I wouldn't want to hear any lc work produced in the rap form. Let the rappers create their own works of art. lc has a canon which would gain nothing from rap. You may as well say that Shakespeare should be performed as jazz. Iambic pentameters are a 'musical' notation after all, but to render it in a form which is foreign to its original strength, power, depth and message would be a waste of someone's time and effort. Unless it was to try and get £20,000 from the Turner Prize. :roll:
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Post by username » Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:30 am

I didn't mean that becj should produce a Cohen rap album. That would be absurd. I think Beck would be great at producing a regular Cohen album. Cohen has the best lyrics, and sonically no artist or producer can do what Beck does.
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peter danielsen
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Cohen did Jazz

Post by peter danielsen » Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:56 pm

Actually LC started out reciting his poems to jazz music, the closeness to riciting it to a rap beat is obviuos. After all how much singing voice has he got left?

Peter
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lightning
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Post by lightning » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:41 pm

Did someone once say something about pouring old wine into new wineskins? Why even bother? Are you hinting that he's no longer ocntemporary? Well neither is Shakespeare. I hear Bunny Wailer singing, "Dn't be no follow fashion monkey."
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Post by moe » Tue May 25, 2004 1:00 pm

hey, I'm new here, and I have nothing but love and respect for Leonard Cohen.

Now the whole rap thing is just a bad idea (though it would be fun to hear what it would be like). I also remember someone somewhere in this discussion talking about leonard cohen remixes. I don't know about remixes, but there has been an infinite number of covers done by some of the most prominent artist from folk singers, to rock bands, to jazz. "A singer must die" has been covered by Jennifer Warnes and Fatima Mansions, "Bird on a wire" was covered by almost everybody in the music industy like Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, judy collins, Joe cooker, just to name a few. "famous blue raincoat" was covered by Tori Amos, and Lioyd Cole, "First we take manhattan" was done quite nicely by REM. Now "Hallelujah" oh man was it covered!! it was done by artists like U2, Rufus Wainwright, Bob Dylan, Sharyl Crow. We could sit here and recite Leonard Cohen covers for ages, but I doubt any of us has the time or the energy :!: . Plus there's nothing like the real thing :wink: . Anyways, just glad to be onboard.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Tue May 25, 2004 2:27 pm

Welcome, Moe :D ! Glad to see you onboard 8) . Are you free June 12 and 13th? If so, you could maybe join us in New York and experience some more covers! Check it out via the New York Event 2004 coverage here and on Jarkko's main page. You're right that there's nothing like the original, but are there parallels, maybe :wink: ?

~ Lizzy
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