"do you" vs "do ya"

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
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MarkW
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Re: "do you" vs "do ya"

Postby MarkW » Wed May 06, 2009 12:10 am

Just so long as we never hear "There is no cure for love", I'll be OK. That would be over the line.
...I told you when I came, I was a stranger.
Minneapolis 1975 / Minneapolis 2009 (Why so many years between???)
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linda_lakeside
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Re: "do you" vs "do ya"

Postby linda_lakeside » Wed May 06, 2009 8:16 am

Haha...a fine can of worms you've opened for us now! I'll sit this one out, as I'm certain this could almost turn into a game of sorts. A 'why did he say that' kind of game.' Who knows? I add somewhat redundantly...'Do not' go home with your' ... well you get the drift. So many little contradictions, along with the big, meaningful ones in LC's work.
~ The smell of perfume in the air, bits of beauty everywhere ~ Leonard Cohen.
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lizzytysh
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Re: "do you" vs "do ya"

Postby lizzytysh » Wed May 06, 2009 3:21 pm

:lol: MarkW and Linda :lol: .


~ Lizzy
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anneporter
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Re: "do you" vs "do ya"

Postby anneporter » Wed May 06, 2009 6:27 pm

I have to vote for the power of the rhyme:

I was as gobsmacked by the rhyme "fool ya/Hallelujah," back in the day, as I was by the gestalt of the song itself. It wakes you up like being hit with a Zen master's stick
Having said that... I'm not attached to the orthodoxy of everyone always having to stick with the original. There is space and time for both interpretations...

Suzanneo, if you are still looking in: has your question been answered yet?
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linda_lakeside
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Re: "do you" vs "do ya"

Postby linda_lakeside » Wed May 06, 2009 9:06 pm

anneporter (anne, if I may),

I think you've hit on one of the most intriguing aspects of Leonard's work - he changes things, at the drop of the hat. For instance, the 'original' Bird on the Wire, has turned into something completely different. As with Hallelujah, verses come and verses go - thereby giving birth to brand new songs. - a word here, a phrase there, and we have 'Various Positions' upon which we can view what he meant and what the changes might mean. Perhaps it's as simple as 'oh, I get tired of singing this song this way over and over and over', however, some of the interviews might indicate that this is not the case. I don't think he discards previous arrangements without reason. Still, it's fun to keep us guessing. In changing his work (as in Hallelujah), and its mega-verses, new songs were culled from those bits and pieces that just kept on coming. It may be a case of his changing a song, but not wanting to 'let it go', so consequently, those little lost phrases/words, find new homes in new songs.

And look at this: 3 pages on 'you' vs 'ya'. How we love to penetrate his every thought. Oh, don't we wish we 'knew' for certain, what was going on in that brain of his, or would the 'magic' be lost if we 'really' knew? The mystery is key, I think.
~ The smell of perfume in the air, bits of beauty everywhere ~ Leonard Cohen.
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suzanneorange
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Re: "do you" vs "do ya"

Postby suzanneorange » Wed May 06, 2009 10:57 pm

Anne,
That question wasn't actually mine...I posted it for Alexandra Scarlet, before her children signed her up to the forum.

I have wondered about the change. I kind of like the more formal "do you", since I like to imagine that Perry Como might have sung it that way... ;-)
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Alexandra Scarlet
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Re: "do you" vs "do ya"

Postby Alexandra Scarlet » Fri May 08, 2009 8:40 pm

Yes, I did open a can of worms, didn't I? That's okay - I like worms. What would grow without them?

As Suzanne Orange explained, I wondered why Leoanard had changed do ya etc. to do you etc. I love his early version; do ya, knew ya, to ya, overthrew ya are perfect rhymes for lujah (Hallelujah). Thanks to my daughter I have a CD of several singers doing Hallelujah. They're all excellent but my favourite, apart from Leonard himself, is kd lang who in her incomparable voice, distinctly sings do ya, etc.

The first time I heard Leonard go with do you was at his superb concert last May here in the oldest city in North America. All I want to know is WHY did Leonard make the change? He's the only one who knows that and I'm pretty sure he'll never tell.

I enjoyed reading the follow-ups.











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Evie B
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Re: "do you" vs "do ya"

Postby Evie B » Sun May 10, 2009 12:24 am

When I hear 'do you' I sort of ache for 'do ya'. I loved 'do ya'.

Why 'do you' jars slightly with me and not the other way round is inexplicable. Leonard must have had a good reason to change it, and it is his song so his decision must be respected. I also would like to know why, but I expect he won't explain.
Maybe 'do ya' was a veiled insult, but his mood has mellowed toward the person it was directed at.

Why is it that Leonard's songs always seem personal? I find myself wondering when listening to his lyrics towards whom they are/were directed. I rarely feel that about other people's songs. I am not expressing myself very well but hope I am understood.
...he shows you where to look amid the garbage and the flowers
GARYMARKBE
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Re: "do you" vs "do ya"

Postby GARYMARKBE » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:27 pm

Truth be known, Leonard can sink it any ol' way he wants
I am guessing,Lizzy, that this is a typo. Since anyone who regarded Leonard's singing as sinking a song would probably not be posting in this forum.

This is not intended as a personal criticism as I am widely known as the Typo King.

The change of ya to you is fascinating, but It seems a bad idea. "Ya" is a pattern though the song, all the parts yet recorded, and I regret seeing it go. Of course Mr. Cohen can do whatever he wants with his song.
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phillip
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Re: "do you" vs "do ya"

Postby phillip » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:58 pm

Hey I wanted to know that he stopped saying Do Ya and now says DO YOU in Hallelujah why?
I have been a Leonard Cohen fan for 28 years feel free to email me if you wish to keep in touch!
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Susy
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Re: "do you" vs "do ya"

Postby Susy » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:00 pm

Hi phillip,
I formyself like the " do you" but I don`t know when or why he stopped "do ya",
but I remember very well that in Venice he sang "do you"!
do you have the Concert CD from Venice?
Greetings... Susanne

in a few days you will get a email from me as I promised
Susy

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