URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

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Vicomte
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by Vicomte » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:48 pm

Two sections must shoulder the blame:

Robert Kory and anyone else involved in the management of LC and of course, LC himself. To those of the faith, then the two dates are surely sacrosanct and installed in the memory for life.

Cup of tea anyone?
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2018 and over fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
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Mabeanie1
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by Mabeanie1 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:18 pm

lizzytysh wrote:So, what you're saying/suggesting/speculating, Wendy, is that Leonard gave way to the Jews of London?
Who else in the line-up of decision-makers would have that level of care and authority for such a momentous change for that single reason, despite prior knowledge of that very conflict.
No Lizzy. I'm saying no one really focussed on the issue, even when we, the fan community, queried it. Arguably it took the Jewish Chronicle to get them to realise what they where doing. That's not the same as saying Leonard gave way to them - though maybe he did. Who knows. I don't.

Once is just about understandable. Twice is negligent at best.

Wendy
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lizzytysh
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by lizzytysh » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:14 pm

I agree on the negligence, given the specifically expressed concerns by fans plus the precedent.
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Zimmy66
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by Zimmy66 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Vicomte wrote:Two sections must shoulder the blame:

Robert Kory and anyone else involved in the management of LC and of course, LC himself. To those of the faith, then the two dates are surely sacrosanct and installed in the memory for life.

Cup of tea anyone?
At last, a succinct, sensible post on the subject after 13 pages of this thread. ( and I include my own in that) Thank you Vicomte. If you are so immersed in your faith (as Leonard allegedly is) these dates would be the first on your list of not available for public adoration.
Champagne for me please. Andy has just won Wimbledon.
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Zimmy66
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by Zimmy66 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:21 pm

lizzytysh wrote:I agree on the negligence, given the specifically expressed concerns by fans plus the precedent.
So you're now disagreeing with your previous post earlier in this thread? Right. :roll:
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Zimmy66
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by Zimmy66 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:22 pm

Mabeanie1 wrote:
lizzytysh wrote:So, what you're saying/suggesting/speculating, Wendy, is that Leonard gave way to the Jews of London?
Who else in the line-up of decision-makers would have that level of care and authority for such a momentous change for that single reason, despite prior knowledge of that very conflict.
No Lizzy. I'm saying no one really focussed on the issue, even when we, the fan community, queried it. Arguably it took the Jewish Chronicle to get them to realise what they where doing. That's not the same as saying Leonard gave way to them - though maybe he did. Who knows. I don't.

Once is just about understandable. Twice is negligent at best.

Wendy
Well said Wendy.
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James-on-tour
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by James-on-tour » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:39 pm

confetti wrote:Obviously if I had planned to fly to another country to see Leonard Cohen and he had cancelled or postponed the concert and I was not able to attend, I would be annoyed and very upset. However, travelling to the concert is my choice, my hotel booking and flights are not the fault or the responsibility of the artist. The concert ticket is going to be refunded and this is all the promoter and ticket agency are obliged to do.

I understand the risks of going to another country to see an artist, and have done this many times, in fact I am in Italy at the minute looking forward to seeing Leonard on Tuesday, if he were to cancel I would be gutted, but hey that's life, there are a heck of a lot worse things that can happen to me, and anyway I am having a great time just now, listening to Diana Krall outside my hotel window.

x :lol: :lol:
Of course a lot worse things could happen to any of us but this statement does not hold water
due to reason for the cancellation.
If there were health reasons or a natural disaster, I cannot imagine one single complaint on this forum.
The totally stupid thing, as I and many others have said, is that this is the second year in a row for this to happen.
For Christ's (or any other God's) sake what is the matter with these people.
In my experience, with all due respect, people take from religion what suits, when it suits.
I imagine that a maximum of 10 per cent (at most) of the audience would be Jewish so 90 per cent
(16000/17000 people) are geographically and financially stressed because of someone else's beliefs.
I apologise if I am wrong but after listening to Chelsea Hotel et al I remain a bit sceptical ......
I cannot imagine that Leonard is just a cash cow for his management.
He is a smart man and if he was not included in the planning the I guess he obviously should have been.
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lizzytysh
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by lizzytysh » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:34 pm

Good catch, Zimmy! Yes, I have altered my original position a bit. It is certainly some negligence on someone's or combination of several someone's part[s], given that it happened last year, and that it was directly expressed by a fan here, ahead of time, this year. As far as I'm concerned, until I know for sure otherwise, though, this error is still out of Leonard's hands. This altering of my original position a bit creates a personal dilemma for me, though. When I was born, I was given three change-your-mind cards. I used my first one in 1967 when I decided against marrying a certain person. Since each card has a perforation to allow for partial changes, I was able to get by with using half of the second one for this. Now, I have only what's left to last me the rest of my life, so I must be very very careful and judicious, for who knows what lies ahead... and being locked into a mindset can be very dangerous. Even though I can see you don't like it that I resorted to my cards for this, I hope you'll wish me well with the 1.5 I have left.


~ Lizzy
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED-

Post by Leonard Lyrics » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:39 am

anne alexander wrote:This is not a good reason to change a tour date. There is a contract between the supplier and the purchaser just as in any purchase of goods. Cohen should be paying all expenses incurred by anyone because of his change (just as Easyjet have done for me if the flight was cancelled). No difference. It is too arrogant to do this. He could have avoided this very simply, so why should a fan suffer. I am so disappointed in him. his ticket prices have annoyed me for some time. now this on top of it. Just like other top artists he is taking advantage of fans. I expected better from him. I thought he had principles and cared about people. His God would not like what he is doing. He is no different to other capitalists. He has fallen from his pedestal. I am now officially an EX-FAN.
Hey, that's no way to say goodbye. :cry:
mickjaggerscat
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by mickjaggerscat » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:24 pm

I think this is what happens when you get in bed with oil billionaires:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/06/12/the- ... -anschutz/
harald
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by harald » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:39 pm

I love your last post, Lizzy!
But be assured, you have an unlimited amount of change-your-mind-cards. They just give them out in piles of three, when you have finished the first pile you get the next one.

Changings one´s mind often results from knowing new aspects or new ideas. Comes from learning.
What´s wrong with learning? What´s wrong with changing one´s mind?
We only dislike it cause we then have to admit that then - from nowadays view - we were wrong. Once taken that hurdle changing one´s mind is perfectly ok.

Best, Harald
1979 Kassel / 1980 Munich / 2008 Munich, Hamburg / 2009 Cologne, Antwerp, Lisbon, Budapest, Barcelona / 2010 Salzburg, Florence, Marseille, Stuttgart, Bratislava / 2012 Ghent, Berlin, Verona, Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon / 2013 Paris, Mannheim, Rome, Prague, Pula, Zuerich, Amsterdam
2011 Haiger / 2014 Dublin / 2015 Hydra, Viladrau / 2016 Amsterdam / 2017 Hydra, Balaton / 2019 Yorkshire / 2020 Ghent
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Paul Zagreb
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by Paul Zagreb » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:46 pm

just got this from booking.com .. I post it only because - even if your hotel reservation says that no changes are possible, it is always worth trying! Paul


Dear Paul Stubbs,

Thank you for contacting Booking.com.

After unsuccessfully trying to reach you by telephone, please be informed that we have approached the ibis London Docklands Canary Wharf on your behalf to seek their approval to modify your reservation.

We are delighted to confirm that the hotel has agreed to allow you to modify without penalty. You will receive an email confirming this shortly.

Please note that this kind of flexibility is exceptional, because the rate booked for this reservation was non-refundable. This means that normally the reservation cannot be modified or cancelled without penalty. However, our co-operation with ibis London Docklands Canary Wharf has resulted in an outcome in which we are happy to present to you.

We are glad to have been of service and hope to be your choice for future online reservations.

Please feel free to contact us with any additional questions.

Kind regards,
2008: Manchester 20 June /Vienna 24 September /Berlin 4 October / Cardiff 8 November/Manchester 30 November 2009: Liverpool 14 July / Belgrade 2 September / Barcelona 21 September 2010: Zagreb 25 July /Sankt Margarethan 5 September 2012: Ghent 12 August/Verona 24 September/Lisbon 7 October 2013: London 21 June / Berlin 17 July / Ljubljana 25 July / Pula 2 August / London 15 September
harald
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by harald » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:52 pm

More to the topic (than my last post).

A mistake has been made, what´s more a silly mistake.
Fortunately in a minor concern, it was concert dates not nuclear bombs.
I sympathise with the ones who suffer losses, but hey, it´s not a catastrophe.
Nevertheless.
People make mistakes, sometimes even twice.
Everyone has, I have done it.
I am always grateful when the bashing stops.

There is a crack in everything, that´s how the light comes in.
1979 Kassel / 1980 Munich / 2008 Munich, Hamburg / 2009 Cologne, Antwerp, Lisbon, Budapest, Barcelona / 2010 Salzburg, Florence, Marseille, Stuttgart, Bratislava / 2012 Ghent, Berlin, Verona, Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon / 2013 Paris, Mannheim, Rome, Prague, Pula, Zuerich, Amsterdam
2011 Haiger / 2014 Dublin / 2015 Hydra, Viladrau / 2016 Amsterdam / 2017 Hydra, Balaton / 2019 Yorkshire / 2020 Ghent
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lizzytysh
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by lizzytysh » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:51 pm

Paul ~ Thanks SO MUCH for bringing the other Paul's outcome to here, so people know to at least TRY! I'm very happy for him, and great advertising for booking.com.
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
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lizzytysh
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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED

Post by lizzytysh » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:07 pm

Hi harald ~ -

Thanks. Better than some approaches I've used in the past when some have with great delight 'nailed' me on something, eh ;-) ?

Such relief you've brought! It never occurred to me to ask if this was it or merely one of many packets!
I just took it and slid down the tube without question.
Wish you'd been able to make me aware of this sooner.
Changings one´s mind often results from knowing new aspects or new ideas. Comes from learning.
Yes, that's the way it has worked for me; and now that I know I can continuing doing so, oh the freedom!

And this thread and discussion doesn't directly impact me. If it did, I know my money and my planning, and how I could be personally gutted by such a change. I believe Verona had to be changed last year, as well. Red Rocks [as well as interesting plans made by other Forum people before/after concerts] taught me to try to schedule leeway days on either side of concert dates.

A non-refundable situation that remains that can be horrible, though. Not in the sense that you've contrasted it with... it's not bomb-level destruction for sure, but it can be of HUGE financial cost, as well as time and opportunity loss to people. The ones I feel worst for are those who have never seen Leonard perform and may find themselves unable to this time as a result of this. We save and save and save and plan and plan and plan... and to have it all go up in smoke is more than a little disheartening.

There are many enough [it seems] willing to blame Leonard... but I choose to withhold that blame, and would even if it were me directly affected. "He ain't [a] heavy, he's [literally, I wish... ]my brother." And in the song's sense, he is... and, until I KNOW otherwise, he won't be blamed by me. Innocent until confessed or proven guilty. My stance doesn't need to make sense to anyone... it just is what it is and suits me. And he seems to me the least likely in the line-up to be responsible for the conflict in scheduling. Given what I've seen, Leonard will address this at the beginning of the concert and my hope is that he does it with deeply sincere empathy. The necessity of changed plans go way beyond inconvenience.
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
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