The tour that never happened until it did

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clive cass
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The tour that never happened until it did

Post by clive cass » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:24 am

I have held back for several months now but zimmy66 (see hope for europe where i also posted this message) is quite right about the situation of the unannounced tour. It is a shocking rudeness and arrogance that defies belief. Concert goers have been treated as scum since I first went to a concert in 1978 (Dylan by the way) and in this day and age of greater customer services and the technology the treatment of fans is worse than ever. I have to except the limited courtesy that Leonard as I am sure it is him rather than ARG show to the members of this forum by allowing pre sales and I only say limited because of the limited time scale of these pre sales.

My last summer holiday was totally ruined and i wasted a lot of money by the relocation of Leonard's concerts from Kent to London and at the moment I am still unable to book this summers holiday. I recently succumbed to buying a ticket for the O2 in London despite the odds being that Leonard will come closer to manchester but could not take the risk of not seeing him at all. I also have to risk buying tickets for other shows on dates which may clash with future Leonard shows that I would not have bought if I already knew Leonard's tour dates.

The fact that Leonard Cohen tickets are at the highest price level compared to most others and with the highest booking fees one would presume we would get a better than average service but of course that is not the case. The fact that Leonard fans are generally older than teenagers who generally are prepared these extra ticket prices and booking fees in return for a better service is also ignored. I have been critical in the past of tickets being sold more than 12 months in advance with promotors earning hundreds of thousand of pounds on millions of pounds worth of tickets but never again. At least I can plan my own future.

I remember in 1978 having got 8 Dylan tickets without queuing from a contact and teasing my school mates as to who I was going to give a ticket to or not. I now regret that behaviour more than ever and am paying for my trite behaviour by being so mercilessly teased by AEG. This situation is unacceptable, rude, arrogant, unhelpful and AEG should be made aware of it.
Dublin(3) 14/5/12, Lille 25/9/10, Liverpool 14/7/09, Manchester 30/11/08, Manchester 17/6/08, London 1988 or 1993 date unknown, Manchester 27/2/85
LHHUNTER
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by LHHUNTER » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:28 pm

I totally agree with all of this. It is a disgrace that it is taking so long to release all the Euro tour dates. After all most other touring artists seem to manage it OK. No concerts should be announced or any tickets sold (including presales) until the vast majority of dates are fixed. Of course there maybe instances where a second show at a particular venue may be added later - thats fine.
People will argue that they cannot stop the local promotors from releasing tickets but I'm afraid it would be easy to stop that if AEG thought about including specific terms in the contracts they sign with the local promotors. Basically AEG don't care and dare I say LC himself is not squeaky clean with this either because at the end of the day AEG merely represent him.
My main fear is the delay in releasing more Euro dates is that they may be considering postponing the current shows in the same way they did on the 2010 tour where lots of fans lost a lot of money.
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by jarkko » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:27 pm

My main fear is the delay in releasing more Euro dates is that they may be considering postponing the current shows in the same way they did on the 2010 tour where lots of fans lost a lot of money.
The Spring tour 2010 had to be cancelled because of Leonard's back problems. The doctors forbade him absolutely from any traveling. So it was a force majeure situation that had no alternatives.
1988, 1993: Helsinki||2008: Manchester|Oslo|London O2|Berlin|Helsinki|London RAH|| 2009: New York Beacon|Berlin|Venice|Barcelona|Las Vegas|San José||2010: Salzburg|Helsinki|Gent|Bratislava|Las Vegas|| 2012: Gent|Helsinki|Verona|| 2013: New York|Pula|Oslo|||
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Paul Zagreb
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by Paul Zagreb » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:42 pm

jarkko wrote:
My main fear is the delay in releasing more Euro dates is that they may be considering postponing the current shows in the same way they did on the 2010 tour where lots of fans lost a lot of money.
The Spring tour 2010 had to be cancelled because of Leonard's back problems. The doctors forbade him absolutely from any traveling. So it was a force majeure situation that had no alternatives.
Absolutely. And by the way, didn't we have a great time in Zagreb for the concert that had to be postponed!!! I also kind of think that the tour management cannot win - blame them when they release dates one at a time, and then be just as upset now because they appear to be waiting until all the rest of the European tour is confirmed before making the announcements. Sure it can be inconvenient if you buy tickets for somewhere and then find there is a concert much nearer to your home but, hey, give the management (and Jarkko) a break --- they work their socks off to try to give us the best possible deals!

Paul
2008: Manchester 20 June /Vienna 24 September /Berlin 4 October / Cardiff 8 November/Manchester 30 November 2009: Liverpool 14 July / Belgrade 2 September / Barcelona 21 September 2010: Zagreb 25 July /Sankt Margarethan 5 September 2012: Ghent 12 August/Verona 24 September/Lisbon 7 October 2013: London 21 June / Berlin 17 July / Ljubljana 25 July / Pula 2 August / London 15 September
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clive cass
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by clive cass » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:01 pm

No one on this thread has even hinted at any criticism of Jarkko whose efforts are legendary and I know full well he has no control over the tour schedule, ticketing and marketing at AEG. I am also happy for those who enjoyed themselves in place of cancelled concerts in the past. however i find it patronising to think that this chaos does not affect people. Many people will have used hard warned money and their holiday allowances to travel to these concerts and may not have travelled with or been able to make friends and may have had quite miserable times. No one is criticising Leonard for cancelling due to genuine illness in 2010 and perhaps LHHUNTER meant to refer to Kent in 2012 or clearly did not know of Leonard's bad back. kent was of course cancelled totally farcically and unacceptably and as I said ruined my summer and caused me to waste a lot of money. Fact. I go to an average of 75 gigs a year all over the uk and occasionally further and have been doing this for over 30 years. I have never known a tour to be announced bit by bit and for a major tour to be announced so late. It's beyond a jok and beyond reasonable.
Dublin(3) 14/5/12, Lille 25/9/10, Liverpool 14/7/09, Manchester 30/11/08, Manchester 17/6/08, London 1988 or 1993 date unknown, Manchester 27/2/85
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by Vicomte » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:10 pm

Just one, possibly two people on here know that I knew Leonard Cohen wouldn't be able to tour as the dates suggested in 2010.

By circumstance I was in Caen and of course I knew that LC would be there soon, I happened to mention it in small talk to a certain person who said that the LC concert would be off, when I looked more than interested I could no longer get more information about the whys and wherefores, except that it was due to a problem to LC himself and the shows announced would be cancelled and/or delayed.

The worst part was that tickets for concerts were still being sold and hotels/flights etc were still being booked (I have put this elsewhere some time ago) so people would certainly lose money as cheap flights and promotions on hotels are generally non refundable. I said then to a couple of people that it was not my job to say anything, lest it was mere talk but it wasn't was it, so someone, Kory and AEG must have known but did not put the brakes on and put the concerts on hold to stop people unnecessarily booking travel arrangements, hotel bills and of course for many, asking for time off work, or re-arranging work etc. Sorry but that's how it was.
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2018 and over fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
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clive cass
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by clive cass » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:17 am

Your suggestion is very serious indeed. I always took it on trust that leonards bad back was genuine but the idea that tickets were still sold for concerts that could not take place is of great concern.

More recently I recall a lot of people saying the Kent concerts would never ever happen and they did not. However tickets continued to be sold and people comtinued to make plans and spend money. I recall some people being unable to afford wembley tickets before they got refunds for kent and ended up missing out altogether like myself. Remember this went on for weeks if not months.

I have never known this sort of think with any other major or minor performer but it does seem endemic with Leonard hence the reason and need for a lot of the threads on this forum.
Last edited by clive cass on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
Dublin(3) 14/5/12, Lille 25/9/10, Liverpool 14/7/09, Manchester 30/11/08, Manchester 17/6/08, London 1988 or 1993 date unknown, Manchester 27/2/85
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by Rodin » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:20 am

Summer holiday?
Blackpool. 1 hour by train from Manchester.
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by UrPal » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:09 am

That last response sounds trite but the underlying principle is sound. I'm reminded that one of Leonard Cohen's favourite sayings is "The devil laughs when we make plans". I tend to avoid them myself.
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clive cass
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by clive cass » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:03 pm

Rodin, I like a laugh and a joke but I had hoped this thread might lead to us getting some explanations as to why these sort of things happen to Leonard's tours. I doubt I could obtain any answers from the promotors or Leonard's managers if I asked them and certainly not an admission if their was any fault to admit to. Perhaps someone on this forum can provide or obtain honest answers or at least make the promotors and management know the chaos, distress and financial implications for their apparent incompetence. I suspect these situations have affected many thousands of people so we could be talking about a huge amount of money wasted and plans ruined.
Dublin(3) 14/5/12, Lille 25/9/10, Liverpool 14/7/09, Manchester 30/11/08, Manchester 17/6/08, London 1988 or 1993 date unknown, Manchester 27/2/85
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Mabeanie1
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by Mabeanie1 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:58 pm

Clive

Your main concern appears to be the late switch of the Hop Farm shows to Wembley Arena. I said it at the time and I will say it again: all you had to do was Google Hop Farm or Hop Farm festival and use a bit of common sense to put two and two together. For example:

http://www.kentnews.co.uk/home/is_axe_h ... _1_1492302
http://www.kentnews.co.uk/home/hop_farm ... _1_1527225
http://www.nme.com/news/miscellaneous/66298

Your holiday would presumably have been equally "ruined" if the venue had been left as Hop Farm but the shows had had to be aborted at the last minute because of the financial failure of the venue/ local promoter. Put simply, the shows simply would not have happened if the local promoter did not have the funds to rent in the staging, PA, seating, back stage stuff, etc etc etc. If an Administrator had been appointed a few weeks earlier, all pending activity could have been frozen whilst the Administrators assessed the situation to decide what they could allow to go ahead. All the signs were there by late August. Leonard's promoters and management made a tough decision and, in the circumstances, I believe they made the right one.

There is always a risk when you plan a holiday around an event, whether it be a concert or other sporting or cultural event. Things can - and do - change all the time. You have to make the decision whether to go ahead and travel without the event or simply not travel and take the financial loss. It's your risk.

Wendy
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clive cass
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Re: The tour that never happened until it dido cannot

Post by clive cass » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:41 pm

I cannot agree with you. When you consider hop farm and the suggestion about 2010 made earlier on this thread and then the current fiasco you smell at best an utterly incompetent and thoughtless promoter and management at best and a rat at worse. I agree things do hAppen but very very rarely and they always seem to happen with Leonard. Competent managemnent do not get involved with bankrupt promotors. I cannot recall it hapening to springsteen, dylan, neil young elton john etc etc. perhaps these things plague leonard who has a track record of being ripped off himself. Utter incompitance and selfish thoughtless behaviour and negligent management causing totally unnecessary loss and inconvenience to many people. Regrettably you cannot convince me otherwise.
Last edited by clive cass on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dublin(3) 14/5/12, Lille 25/9/10, Liverpool 14/7/09, Manchester 30/11/08, Manchester 17/6/08, London 1988 or 1993 date unknown, Manchester 27/2/85
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Mabeanie1
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by Mabeanie1 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:51 pm

What "current fiasco"????

Frustration, definitely, disappointment - maybe. But there is no fiasco that I can see. Just a delay in announcing the remainder of the European tour dates. Even then there is not that much of a delay - after all, both the 2008 and 2012 summer tour dates were announced in March and we're not there yet. It's only frustrating because a handful of dates went on sale earlier. What on earth is to be gained by getting melodramatic about it??

Wendy
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MarieM
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Re: The tour that never happened until it dido cannot

Post by MarieM » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:30 pm

clive cass wrote: I agree things do hAppen but very very rarely and they always seem to happen with Leonard.
From the Detroit News today:
Rod Stewart’s April 25 concert at the Palace of Auburn Hills has been postponed until Oct. 26, the Palace announced today.

The rocker’s “Live the Life” tour with Steve Winwood, which had been scheduled to start in April, is being postponed to allow him to promote his upcoming album, his first original rock album in almost two decades.
http://www.freep.com/article/20130208/E ... RONTPAGE|s
Not cancelled because of illness or bankruptcy of the promoter but so Rod Stewart can promote his new album. Wouldn't a tour promote the new album?

Oh, and tickets are still on sale! http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/08004 ... and=palace
Marie
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clive cass
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Re: The tour that never happened until it did

Post by clive cass » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:49 pm

I am sorry you are defending the indefensible. Of course from time to time concerts are cancelled but it seems to happen to Leonard more than most. Rod Stewart and steve windwood have made their own decisions and not once forced on them, wrong as those decisions might be depending on how long the tour has been on.

There were lots of speculation on this forum for many months about Kent and all that speculation was obviously true and the concerts could and should have been rescheduled long before there were and this would have saved many people a lot of bother.

The main thrust of my thread however is not about cancelled concerts but about the fact that the summer tour has only been partially announced. Do you know many examples of this happening with other starts to provide justification for what is happening with Leonard.

Sorry again to disagree with you but I feel you are trying to support the unsupportable and I really do not know why. I am not anti Leonard but I am anti being messed about when it is wrong and unnecessary and I feel you should be supporting this and making our feelings known to the promotors and Leonard's management or Leonard himself via the channels you have at your disposal.
Dublin(3) 14/5/12, Lille 25/9/10, Liverpool 14/7/09, Manchester 30/11/08, Manchester 17/6/08, London 1988 or 1993 date unknown, Manchester 27/2/85
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