Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dublin..

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Jeremy
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Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dublin..

Post by Jeremy » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:43 pm

I have just stumbled on the Dublin (3) thread via a link in another and how glad am I to have seen it. Not going to Dublin? Me neither. Want your faith in human nature refreshing? Not a problem. Just drop into the thread and feast on the wealth of grateful and happy folk writing there. Fair cheered me up after a slightly joyless experience watching the UK Concerts thread!

As Marie points out in her post, fans, followers, enthusiasts, admirers - doesn't matter what we call ourselves - may find a particular artist at any one of a whole range of points in their lives. And while it's perhaps understandable if those who have enjoyed Leonard's music (and him....) for a long time may feel a degree of enhanced "ownership," surely it's an obvious truth that anyone taking pleasure from the man and his work ought to be received in friendship in a community such as this one. Revere your grandparents, by all means, but what about loving and nurturing your children too? By the same token, not everyone joins and posts on internet forums regularly - nor should they need to in order to be considered part of the fan base.

Over the years during which I have been a frequent looker-in and occasional poster here, I have seen many people suggest that forum registration and access to pre-sales should be restricted at certain times to reduce the number of tickets sold to people who only want to sell them on. I may be mistaken, but I cannot ever recall seeing Jarkko or his fellow moderators respond to these suggestions, and now I properly understand why. All you need to get the point is look at the number of new members who have posted a couple of times to say how pleased, grateful and relieved they are to have the chance of finding tickets for one of the concerts. These people seem, without exception, to be genuine admirers of Leonard’s work. They don’t post once, just for the password and then disappear – they come back to say how pleased they are – and to thank Jarkko, Marie and the other people who keep this forum on the road, and who labour mightily to provide us all with the latest, most privileged news from Leonard’s managers and the best chance (within the realms of possibility) to benefit as signed-up members when tickets go on sale. They have gone more than the "extra mile" - they have done a wonderful job.

I was particularly taken with the point Marie made about the lack of any prospects for another tour when the forum/board was created by Jarkko. I suspect that at that time the forum was a classic labour of love, produced mainly for the purposes of, as Mr C put it in his 2008+ tour concerts, “keeping his music alive.” When the tours of 2008 and then again in 2012 came along, Jarkko and team were catapulted into a completely new role; that of acting as conduit between the management and those of us who wanted to see Leonard perform again and those of us who (that’s me) had never thought the chance to see him for the first time would come again. And now, all of us – the old-timers, the 2008 contingent and those who have come along still more recently should really strive to enjoy this still more unexpected pleasure – together - and to do it with a big vote of thanks to Jarkko and his colleagues for making it a thing we are able to share as a family of sorts.
Manchester Opera House 2008 - Edinburgh Castle 2008 - Albert Hall 2008 - Manchester MEN 2008 - Liverpool Echo Arena 2009 - Florence 2010 - Manchester Arena 2013
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TommyJ
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by TommyJ » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:11 pm

Superbly put, Jeremy!
London o2 July 2008 and Nov 2008, NYC (Radio City Music Hall) May 2009, Weybridge July 2009, Lille Sept 2010, Las Vegas Dec 2010, Wembley 8 and 9 Sept 2012, Dublin Sept 2012, Paris Sept 2012, London 02 June 2013, Leeds Sept 2013, London o2 Sept 2013 ... and hopefully more to come.
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friscogrl
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by friscogrl » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:33 pm

Hi Jeremy, I agree everyone should read Marie's post. Marie is definitely one the voices of reason here on the
Forum. She is correct when she says everyone should be welcomed here whether they are new followers of Leonard's work or have been forever but new to the forum. Everyone here should have a voice and not be attacked for something they said.

But that being said Ladydi was not the first to express annoyance at people whose first post consist of comments such
As " when is he coming to my country?" Or "how can I get I get a really good ticket" for such and such city. And Jeremy many of these people never come back. To some people here it seems these individuals are joining just to get a ticket and not be a part of this community which is so highly valued by many us.

I can see how Emma was upset by Ladydi's post but maybe if she initially posted her very eloquent statement expressing her feelings for Leonard and how she is moved by his words that post would have never been written. I think it is just human nature to want someone who is coming into their community that is so special to them introduce themselves and maybe share a little bit before just coming in to ask for something.

Marsha
Last edited by friscogrl on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tinderella
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by tinderella » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:01 pm

Ah very well written and brave post Marsha after all the recent furore.

Thanks for posting
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dharma
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by dharma » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:35 am

Jeremy wrote:not everyone joins and posts on internet forums regularly - nor should they need to in order to be considered part of the fan base.
Excellent post, Jeremy. :D

My 66-year-old brother (he's 14 years older than me) has been a fan since Leonard's first album but has NEVER posted on this forum.

I think if he made his first post now and innocently enquired about tickets he'd be viewed with suspicion by some here. "Is he a tout/scalper?" "Is he a true fan?"

It's absurd really, and quite sad. :(
London 1985 / London 1988 / London 1992 / Dublin, Manchester, London, Paris, 2008 / Weybridge, Venice 2009
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Hydrogal
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by Hydrogal » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:53 am

A view from a new(bie).
I joined this forum shortly before the tour was announced--in anticipation of a tour being announced. I am a true newbie with less than one year under my belt, so to speak. I came into the LC fold suddenly, and when I came, I came......when I fell I fell hard! I know I don't have to explain to anyone here, but his music touched something in me that needed touching. Don't know how else to explain it.

I am sure MY first post was a desperate plea for assistance in how to purchase a ticket for the Paris show. I was very scared that I would do something wrong and miss the whole thing. I was so impressed and thankful when Jarkko himself took time to message me with a very calm-"go here when the time comes and do this and you will be able to purchase a ticket". Voila--I got my ticket. Paris and Verona. This is why there are so many 'how do I get a ticket?' posts. People just like me.

Oh.. and as far as introducing ourselves.....well there seemed to be nothing on any threads except displeasure about people joining just to get tickets. Of course I knew no one meant me because my heart is pure--at least where Leonard Cohen is concerned;-). Anyway, it was not an environment for a newbie to give a hearty Hi-how-are-ya. We kept our heads down! As soon as a I found a site for 'Welcome', I posted. As did many others.

Recently my husband and I paid a visit to our son and his family. My son, Dallas, used my car to pick up take-out and of course LC was playing. When he got back he asked me who I had on my cd player and I told him. Later that night as we were driving home, he texted me and asked again who it was. He was on iTunes and wanted to purchase the CD. I advised him to get The Essential LC and he did. A few weeks later I asked him if he downloaded that LC cd and he said yes. How do you like it I asked? This is my 30 year old son, just finished 10 years in the Marine Corp and is now back in school. He said, "I love it. The words are amazing and the music just calms me so much. I listen everyday on my half hour drive to school." Now didn't that just warm my heart! That is how it should happen.

One more thing and I'm done--my 11 year old grandson was riding with us and Democracy was playing. He listened and when it was over he asked what that song meant because didn't we already have a democracy? Great conversation followed. That is how it should happen.
Just sayin'.
I feel lucky to be new right now. Every song and every poem is an exploration and an inspiration. I listen and go back and listen again, and wonder how it could have taken me so long to find him?
Barbara
we are so lightly here
it is in love that we are born--in love we disappear

Verona 2012, Paris 2012, Detroit 2012, Boston 2012, Miami 2013, New Orleans 2013
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MarieM
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by MarieM » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:23 am

friscogrl wrote:

But that being said Ladydi was not the first to express annoyance at people whose first post consist of comments such
As " when is he coming to my country?" Or "how can I get I get a really good ticket" for such and such city. And Jeremy many of these people never come back. To some people here it seems these individuals are joining just to get a ticket and not be a part of this community which is so highly valued by many us.

I can see how Emma was upset by Ladydi's post but maybe if she initially posted her very eloquent statement expressing her feelings for Leonard and how she is moved by his words that post would have never been written. I think it is just human nature to want someone who is coming into their community that is so special to them introduce themselves and maybe share a little bit before just coming in to ask for something.
Indeed, Ladydi was not the first to express annoyance and she won't be the last. So, let's take her off the hook right now, just as I will take all newcomers (yes, that is better than newbies, thanks TipperaryAnn) off the hook below. Even back in 2008 there was talk about closing the doors to newcomers. It's a natural and real reaction. But the bigger picture is exactly as Jeremy describes above, the goal is to keep Leonard's music alive. That was the goal before the 2008 tour and it is a real and serious consideration when touring stops. The Internet world is a different place than it was in 2008. Facebook was not a factor back then. Leonard's Facebook page has over 1.1 million members. A single post identifying this Forum as the "fan club" and a source of presale tickets would double our membership over night and we have little control over what is posted on Facebook. This was how my discussion with Jarkko began two weeks ago. People were talking about closing the forum to newcomers in the Tickets thread and Jarkko and I were privately talking about what would happen if a link to this site made it onto Leonard's Facebook page.

I made my post on the Dublin page because the Dublin sale seemed to be particularly problematic with regard to tickets. I made my post after Ladydi's post but I never referenced Ladydi's post because I was not addressing her in particular. The post that I made, and Jarkko signed off on, was made to address the low-level grumbling that was occurring board-wide over newcomers. Please take Ladydi off the hook. She is just like you, she loves Leonard.

As to newcomers, it would be nice if they introduced themselves before they bought tickets and said thank you afterwards. That is not a requirement. There is no requirement that any member has to make any post at any time. There are far more members here who just lurk and many were lurking before 2008. People post because they have something to say. I pretty much said all I had to say about Leonard before the Forum even opened. It doesn't mean my commitment to Leonard's work is any less. Some people are shy. (Leonard is shy.) Some people get their tickets and never say a word. Some of these people will return after the concert and will want to talk about it with you then. Some people don't live their lives on the Internet. They aren't comfortable with the medium. Please take newcomers off the hook. The vast majority of them are just like you, they love Leonard.

Next, an item as food for thought. I don't know where the notion began that the presale is about getting the best seats (i.e. front row seats) at a venue. That was never the promise. The forum is allocated a certain number of tickets after who knows how many people/groups have stuck their fingers in the pot. For some venues there are few people who pick over the goodies before we get them but other venues have a whole bunch of greedy hands. I have a long, cynical streak and I'm not going to tell you that everything about ticket sales is pure and holy. (See Ticketmaster's performance on the list of worst companies in America 2012, 2011, etc.) But what you probably don't know is that Jarkko is not passive. He fights constantly and unrelentingly to get you the best allocation possible. Many, if not all, of Leonard's concerts will sell out. There will be people left out in the cold. But you got a ticket and it is a good seat...Hallelujah.
Marie
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MarieM
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by MarieM » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:45 am

Hydrogal wrote:

Recently my husband and I paid a visit to our son and his family. My son, Dallas, used my car to pick up take-out and of course LC was playing. When he got back he asked me who I had on my cd player and I told him. Later that night as we were driving home, he texted me and asked again who it was. He was on iTunes and wanted to purchase the CD. I advised him to get The Essential LC and he did. A few weeks later I asked him if he downloaded that LC cd and he said yes. How do you like it I asked? This is my 30 year old son, just finished 10 years in the Marine Corp and is now back in school. He said, "I love it. The words are amazing and the music just calms me so much. I listen everyday on my half hour drive to school." Now didn't that just warm my heart! That is how it should happen.

One more thing and I'm done--my 11 year old grandson was riding with us and Democracy was playing. He listened and when it was over he asked what that song meant because didn't we already have a democracy? Great conversation followed. That is how it should happen.
Welcome, Barbara. I love to hear stories of parents introducing their kids to Leonard. And you did double duty -- two generations. Fantastic work!
Marie
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Ronaldson
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by Ronaldson » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:03 am

Dear Marie, Thank you for your thoughtful posts, both in this thread and in the Dublin thread. I like the expression of your positive, welcoming and tolerant attitude. And I suspect that you have provided a very accurate overview of the diversity of temperaments and personalities in the forum community:
There are far more members here who just lurk and many were lurking before 2008. People post because they have something to say. I pretty much said all I had to say about Leonard before the Forum even opened. It doesn't mean my commitment to Leonard's work is any less. Some people are shy. (Leonard is shy.) Some people get their tickets and never say a word. Some of these people will return after the concert and will want to talk about it with you then. Some people don't live their lives on the Internet. They aren't comfortable with the medium. Please take newcomers off the hook. The vast majority of them are just like you, they love Leonard.
Both you and Jarkko (famous for the words: "Relax and be patient") have demonstrated an excellent perspective on how to celebrate the work of Mr. Cohen and enjoy the fact that in recent years he has been able to bring his music to so many of us. It sounds like forum members generally just need to be patient and reasonable: from everything we have heard, it is likely that in 2012 and 2013 the tour will manage to cover a large part of the globe (yes, even including the UK!).

As for the comments on presales, I am not surprised by your allusions to ticket-allocating shenanigans. During the 2008-10 tour, it was clear that some presales successfully offered many "prime" seats to forum members. However, in other presales, it was apparent that most of the seats offered were noticeably less-than-prime. For many of these shows, forum members later reported that several of the sought-after tickets were being released at odd intervals in the weeks leading up to the concert. One dramatic example: on the Friday before the RAH shows on Monday and Tuesday, the entire 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th rows were suddenly made available for sale. Wow... Obviously, for whatever reason, it seems that many seats at some concerts are simply not offered in the presale or initial public sale. This raises the possibility that if a person does not succeed in buying a prime ticket in these sales, it may simply be that there was too much demand for too few tickets available at that moment in time. Perhaps the touts/scalpers play a much smaller role in the presales than many people assume. In any event, the whole process of how tickets are sold strikes me as being just as mysterious as fluctuations in airfare (for the flights that people have to buy to travel to those concerts for which they succeeded in buying tickets :D ). Your advice, Marie, to simply appreciate that one has the good fortune to be sitting at a Leonard Cohen concert (even if it is far from the front row) seems like a good philosophy for avoiding unnecessary angst...
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TommyJ
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by TommyJ » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:43 am

"Welcome, Barbara. I love to hear stories of parents introducing their kids to Leonard. And you did double duty -- two generations. Fantastic work![/quote]"

Marie, in that case, and at the risk of being a bit indulgent, I'll briefly share an unforgettable experience: My kids know Leonard's music well after years of exposure, and genuinely seem to love it (I have honestly tried to let them make up their own minds). I took my (then) 9 year old daughter to see Leonard in Lille in 2010 - I really wanted her to experience the whole atmosphere, the quality of muscianship, the magic. During the interval, she wrote him a note, along with a picture she had drawn of the scene, thanking him for "the best night of her life". She addressed the note to "L. Cohen and band". After the (fabulous) gig, she tried to hand the note to a roadie, and was crestfallen to be told that he was unable to pass it to Leonard. The next day, shortly before our train out of Lille, by some staggering piece of good fortune, we met the great man. He was so kind to her and me and generous with his time - and of course she got to give him her note in person! A truly wonderful experience, and needless to say the photos / autograph have pride of place in our house. Only "problem" is that I pacified my younger daughter (then 7), who was furious to be told that she was too young to go to Lille, that if he ever toured again, I'd take her to see him too. A rash promise? Maybe, and I will need to start saving immediately. Paris, here we come!
London o2 July 2008 and Nov 2008, NYC (Radio City Music Hall) May 2009, Weybridge July 2009, Lille Sept 2010, Las Vegas Dec 2010, Wembley 8 and 9 Sept 2012, Dublin Sept 2012, Paris Sept 2012, London 02 June 2013, Leeds Sept 2013, London o2 Sept 2013 ... and hopefully more to come.
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Hydrogal
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Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dublin..

Post by Hydrogal » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Just to be clear-- I received a very warm welcome from many forum members as soon as I introduced myself as a newcomer. I felt very accepted.


Barbara
Barbara
we are so lightly here
it is in love that we are born--in love we disappear

Verona 2012, Paris 2012, Detroit 2012, Boston 2012, Miami 2013, New Orleans 2013
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lizzytysh
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by lizzytysh » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:45 pm

Oh, Tommy ~ how much everyone would have missed had you not come forward with that gloriously karmic anecdote of you and your precious daughter meeting Leonard in person, and her being able to give him her note in person 8) !!! Forever impacted she has been. I hope to meet you both in Paris. Which concert will you be attending. All promises should be kept, and this is one you MUST keep!!! And not self-indulgent at all to share that! I'm so glad she held on to her note. That's classic 8)
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TommyJ
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by TommyJ » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:59 pm

Thanks so much, Lizzytysh! It was such a wonderful incident, and made a huge impact on me too, as well as creating quite a bond between me and my elder daughter (who has pictures of Leonard, her with Leonard, her and me with Leonard on her bedroom wall). We owe the experience to Somehwat Nifty and Gilly RJD of this forum, to whom we are forever indebted. To be honest, it had been amazing to share the gig with my daughter, so this was quite some icing on the cake.

To answer your question, my 2 daughters (who'll be 11 and 9) and I are going to the Friday Paris gig. I haven't told them yet, because they will be beside themselves with excitement. I took them to see the Webb Sisters at Union Chapel, and they got to sit in the front row (free seating) and met Charley and Hattie afterrwards. So maybe they will have unrealistic expectations! But it's such a privilege to be able to share this with them. I'm also going (without kids) to the 14 Sept Dublin gig, and will do so with great gratitude to this Forum.

It would be great to meet you somewhere down the road!

All the best
Tom
London o2 July 2008 and Nov 2008, NYC (Radio City Music Hall) May 2009, Weybridge July 2009, Lille Sept 2010, Las Vegas Dec 2010, Wembley 8 and 9 Sept 2012, Dublin Sept 2012, Paris Sept 2012, London 02 June 2013, Leeds Sept 2013, London o2 Sept 2013 ... and hopefully more to come.
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MarieM
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by MarieM » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:05 am

TommyJ wrote:

Marie, in that case, and at the risk of being a bit indulgent, I'll briefly share an unforgettable experience: My kids know Leonard's music well after years of exposure, and genuinely seem to love it (I have honestly tried to let them make up their own minds). I took my (then) 9 year old daughter to see Leonard in Lille in 2010 - I really wanted her to experience the whole atmosphere, the quality of muscianship, the magic. During the interval, she wrote him a note, along with a picture she had drawn of the scene, thanking him for "the best night of her life". She addressed the note to "L. Cohen and band". After the (fabulous) gig, she tried to hand the note to a roadie, and was crestfallen to be told that he was unable to pass it to Leonard. The next day, shortly before our train out of Lille, by some staggering piece of good fortune, we met the great man. He was so kind to her and me and generous with his time - and of course she got to give him her note in person! A truly wonderful experience, and needless to say the photos / autograph have pride of place in our house. Only "problem" is that I pacified my younger daughter (then 7), who was furious to be told that she was too young to go to Lille, that if he ever toured again, I'd take her to see him too. A rash promise? Maybe, and I will need to start saving immediately. Paris, here we come!
What a great story, Tom. It is wonderful that you can share something so emotional and compelling as Leonard's music with your daughters. And then to have such an amazing and unexpected encounter. Wow! You have definitely made some memories that will keep your daughters close to you as they enter the terrible teens. Thanks so much for sharing. You made me smile. Enjoy all that Paris and Leonard have to offer.
Marie
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TommyJ
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Re: Why everybody should read Presale to 3rd Concert in Dubl

Post by TommyJ » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:59 pm

Thanks so much, Marie! Happy days!

Tom
London o2 July 2008 and Nov 2008, NYC (Radio City Music Hall) May 2009, Weybridge July 2009, Lille Sept 2010, Las Vegas Dec 2010, Wembley 8 and 9 Sept 2012, Dublin Sept 2012, Paris Sept 2012, London 02 June 2013, Leeds Sept 2013, London o2 Sept 2013 ... and hopefully more to come.
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