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Ask and answer questions about Leonard Cohen, his work, this forum and the websites!
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tomsakic
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Post by tomsakic »

Tchocolatl wrote:Also, the post of Jurica PLEASE was without any regard for people, so I understand very well that some people could been hurt and react to it by delinquency. It was as rude and selfish as a slap in the face, because one would have stand in the sunshine of another. The idea was good, though, but it could have been bring in a respectful manner, not in this arrogant tone. Jurica is Jurica he is like this, rough, as far as I have read his stuff, here. But you back him without a shadow of concern for people's feelings.
My feeling is that in retrospective I was right. Jarkko opened the new section. He gave few remarks about his moderator's role, which confirm my deepest feeling about wrong turn this place took in last few months. Don't you see everybody's quarreling? I was thinking that PLEASE was the worst - it wasn't. Look after all your quarrels and endless apologising threads. Look at Snow's provocations against Jarkko.
Tchocolatl wrote:For Tom being good mannered... well, i wonder if he could be more easily influenced than I am. I wonder. Actions speak louder than words. Wait and see.
You've gon to far this time.
Tchocolatl wrote:Tom, don't tell me you does no't have the answer to my question in your regard, you who has the answer for everything in regard of Leonard.

Or are you afraid to answer me? Is your site is an official site or not? Thank you in advance.
I answered you. I am not online 24 hours a day. Don't have preconsumtions already. Thank you for your concern.
Last edited by tomsakic on Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tomsakic
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Post by tomsakic »

In any case, I don't know why you didn't check History option.
Also, how did you coclude that I wrote my site is "offical"??? That speaks only about your obsessions I presume.


On January 3 2005 I added many LC links there. I wrote only "A Thousand Kisses Deep" for my site, because I think it's not *only* Croatian.
Official Leonard Cohen Website
The Leonard Cohen Files (fansite)
Dear Heather International Site
Ten New Songs International Site
The Essential Leonard Cohen International Site
Field Commander Cohen: Tour Of 1979 International Site
The Leonard Cohen Webring
Speaking Cohen (archive)
Diamonds in the Lines (Leonard Cohen In His Own Live Words)
I'm Your Live Man (Leonard Cohen Concerts and Live Recordings Database)
Leonard Cohen Nights Festival
Leonard Cohen Support groups
A Thousand Kisses Deep
Abstraction and Ambiguity in the Lyrics of Leonard Cohen
70 things you may not know about Leonard Cohen
"Leonard Cohen's downbeat success"
The Proceedings of Leonard Cohen Conference (Red Deer College, 1993)
The same day some "Jmabel" corrected the links:
General sites on Cohen
Official Leonard Cohen Website
The Leonard Cohen Files (fansite)
The Leonard Cohen Webring
Speaking Cohen (archive); this appears to be the "master" site for many of the sites about specific albums listed below.
Diamonds in the Lines (Leonard Cohen In His Own Live Words), includes Cohen's comments on many individual songs.
I'm Your Live Man (Leonard Cohen Concerts and Live Recordings Database), dedicated to the research of concerts and public recordings by Cohen.
Leonard Cohen Nights Festival, an annual tribute in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. The site contains both material about Cohen and about the history of the event, which is intended as a Canadian analogue to similar cultural evenings dedicated by Scottish groups to Robert Burns.
Leonard Cohen Meetup groups

Sites about specific albums
Dear Heather International Site
Ten New Songs International Site
The Essential Leonard Cohen International Site
Field Commander Cohen: Tour Of 1979 International Site

Articles, conferences, academic papers
Abstraction and Ambiguity in the Lyrics of Leonard Cohen
70 things you may not know about Leonard Cohen
"Leonard Cohen's downbeat success"
The Proceedings of Leonard Cohen Conference (Red Deer College, 1993)

Foreign-language sites
Official French Leonard Cohen site.
A Thousand Kisses Deep, Official Croatian site.
So you can see who made that "correction". Wikipedia's contributor named "Jmabel". From History it's obvious that she (?) organised links in some groups, and moved A Thousand Kisses Deep and French site to "official" foreign-language sites. Also, Tchoco, French site isn't official according to http://www.leonardcohen.com (but http://www.sonymusic.fr/leonardcohen/ *not working*) - it's fan site, or semi-official site, as mine. So I don't see why you're obsessed only by Croatian site.

I repeat, there's Talk, and there's History option on Wikipedia before you accuse someone. Otherwise you wouldn't embarass yourself.
Last edited by tomsakic on Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tomsakic
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Post by tomsakic »

So, I just edites it in:
Foreign-language sites
The French Leonard Cohen site.
German Leonard Cohen site.
A Thousand Kisses Deep, the Croatian Leonard Cohen Site with English section.
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mdidier
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Post by mdidier »

:lol: sorry to interrupt this "Waiting for Tchoco" theater.....

Tchoco is still as confused and confusing as in the past, and the valiant posters in these halls are still trying to figure him/her out... :shock:

:twisted: "Au Suivant", cher/e Tchoco.... as Brel would say...
Life is the final riddle, we all give up on it eventually...
jurica
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Post by jurica »

well, unlike Tom, i am more or less 24 hours a day online right now (i do eat and do other stuff, but i also have a wireless internet on my laptop), but i didn't know of this crappy business until Tom emailed me.

i mean - it was me,Tchoc, that posted that PLEASE thread that insulted you so much. it was me that asked people not to waste my time with threads that nave nothing to do with Leonard Cohen. so how did you come to expect me to read this 'freedom of speach' thread?

how could have i known that in this thread my work (web page) and person ('Jurica is a rough person') are being insulted in this particular thread that has nothing to do with that?

and you seem to have posted that: "will you answer me: are you or are or were you ever a memeber of communist party (pardon, official site)" like ten times WITHOUT ONCE SENDING ME A PM OR EMAIL!

and how low can you get? accusing people of something based on wikipedia! for those who don't know, it's an interesting web project where everybody can write whatever they want. like someone did. not me, not Tom...

just like you concluded i am a rough person without ever meeting me, i conclude you are self obsesed, opiniated and, well, sort of petty person, so i rest my case and will not open this thread again (as the Snow/Jarkko argument is not of my interest). any other comments you are free to address to me (PM, staresincic@yahoo.com) or open a new thread (Everything else) where we can discuss it).
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Post by jurica »

ooops, just a little thing about PLEASE thread you noticed! you said i hurt people's feelings, and Tom sided with me. well, what did you expect:

1. i was right (as you can see from the new section),

2. Tom and i discussed that we should perhaps say something about it several times before in person. it was me that after some consideration decided to post the thread (because at that moment, like 10 top ranking threads had nothing to do with LC), and obviously Tom sided with me because he agreed, not because there's a Croatian conspiracy rooting against you.

perhaps it would be better if Tom wrote the post, since it would certanly be milder, but i prefer it this way. we can't all be as hypocritical as you to 'subtly imply so noone gets hurt' what can easily be said in plain words.
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Post by jurica »

oh, and i still haven't forgot the low, evil, under-the-belt attack on me when you used a poor first-time-poster to say: is this the right section for this post? when his post actualy WAS about LC.

so much about my roughness and your 'subtle ways'... how did that innocent casulty feel?

God, i don't think i ever encountered a person as hypocritical as you.
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Post by Tchocolatl »

Mon ami Didier! Hello! :D Sorry Didier, it is a serious matter, I am not into a sado-maso enterprise-game style "Fais-moi mal, Johnny-Johnny-Johnny" please go shake the red cloth in front of somebody else, sorry. Nice to hear of you though. 8) P.S. My numerous posts are far less confused - if they are for a clear mind, I mean (yes, this is mean - a joke) that yout sole one, here, D. - and the serial of contradictory posts of Tom, btw. My question was very simple to understand and to answer.

Jurica, it is not that I don't like you, it is that your evident lack of any sense of humour, and your judgmental attitude toward people that you seem to have in so low estime in your posts, they are all stupid, stupid cow, ignorant, not able to vote, etc. etc. etc. name it, that I feel helpless to communicate with you in a satisfaying manner. All I expect from you is insults and disrespect. However, your memory - as the memory goes - did not stock exact souvenirs, dear, as I came "to your rescue" so to speak when you where attacked for the only purpose that you were a newbie and having a nice site. You can do a search if you want I doubt you will, but you'll see it is not all black as you painted it. It is up to you.

P.S. : If I did not send an e-mail, it is because my experience of explanations behing closed doors on the sole basis of the trust I had on the person went very bad in the past.

P.S. : I was not insulted by PLEASE, I laughed, when I read it, I imagined an exasperated straight guy that has to deal with chatty imaginative people - I wrote it was selfish and could have hurt the sensitive people, I still think it. I also wrote that it was not realistic that it would stop the bla-bla in this section - and it is- and I also wrote that the navigation is more easy now. You are free to retain the content of my posts as you want. But please be careful that you stress only what you have read and retained.

Here, I will answer Tom.

1) For the little history - and I don't bring the e-mail (proof) here unless you ask me to do it, this wikipédia page was up-dated after our exchange of email of January 3, 2005 - in which I gave you and Jurica the adress of the page where you can add you site to the list.

2) I already answered regarding the FLCS. This is irrelevant for the question I asked to you.

3) Thank you to have answered my question. The many twists and contradictions in your answer, mixed with the very clear information gives me to think you two were not even clear in this regard.

Everything is clear now and I wish long live to your Leonard Cohen site!

You have the choice, guys, to stay angry at me or to realize it was a necessary thing to do and you gain to have done this exercise.

Now we can shake hands or you can turn your back at me in grumbling. Your 50% in the good relationship with me, I can not do for you. :)




***

Now, ey! Tom. Some little clarifications seem necessary :

Yes I do think that became, with time, a little - euh - careless with people who seems without any - euh - "power" of some sort and that you give too much credit to the other. And yes it irritates me. But you are not the one. It is the archeic culture of forum to beat the feables. And yes it is a recurrent theme of mine, not only with you, though, should you read my posts in general. The fact, in your case, that I had a favorable prejudice toward you, I though you were not playing this kind of game, well.... this explain the rest. OK?

I'm not embarass at all. Even in the case my assumption would have been proved wrong. I'm not of these kinds of people that can not admit a mistake without being embarassed and stubornly continue the error ad nauseam. I'm not as fool as to think I'm always right, nor any human being. I'm not embarass to be a human being. And I don't embarass people who make mistakes and correct it after, if you remark. That is just life to me. We are all planes that have to correct our cruise to arrive. OK, I stop the lecture. :wink:

Which endless apologizes are you talking about, exactly? Are you sure you are talking about me?

Re BL. Yes a self councious shocking book it is as you stressed. Still shocking. For example, for me a rape is shocking. I can't figure how it can not be shocking for some person but a sexual predator. Really. Not that I classify you in this category. Just that I wonder if you have read this book with all your sensitivity and not only your intellect.

i have to run, timer is out of time!!

Take care Ev!!! :D
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Post by Wenslauw »

Tchocolatl wrote:Bee et al.
Have a look at this, it gives an idea of what I meant :

"This book is a masterpiece, in every sense of the word. Mr. Cohen creates an ambiance of truly desperate and lonely people, where the only person who makes any sense is completely insane."

and more there :

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookse ... 253&itm=10
Just some people saying it's a great book. None wellknown writers of reviews as far as I know. This doesn't mean much.
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tomsakic
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Post by tomsakic »

Tchocolatl wrote:Thank you to have answered my question. The many twists and contradictions in your answer, mixed with the very clear information gives me to think you two were not even clear in this regard.
What contradictions?
Tchocolatl wrote:this wikipédia page was up-dated after our exchange of email of January 3, 2005
Didn't I say that?

On January 3, 2005, at 08:23, I edited the links, adding all fan sites and links to albums' sites.
On January 3, 2005, at 23:03, "Jmabel" edited it, organising cathegories, making "Foreign Languages" Section, moving A Thousand Kisses Deep into it, adding word "official" beside "Croatian" and "French".
On March 5, 2005, 21:54, "Pyrop" erases foreign sites. "What are they doing here?" is the comment.
On March 6, 2005, 04:00, "Jmabel" is returning the Croatian and French links with comment: "restoring external links to foreign-language sites. I think these are more than routinely interesting, especially the French one".

When you're in History option at Wikipedia, you can compare versions - just choose the two versions you wanna compare, and you'll see who added what.
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Post by Tchocolatl »

Tom, dear, as far as I'm concerned this file is now closed to my entire satisfaction. It is not the matter of the version I want or not want to compare. This began with my email and the rest is the responsibility of the wb of the sites.

Thank you again.

Wenslauw,

Right, It proves nothing. I did not want to prove something. It is just that it explains a little how I see the novel, and how it is/was seen. In a positive manner.

There is an interesting review on this site.

Wenslauw, being wellkown does not = having the truth. Hopefully one is able to make his own opinion without having to rely on wellknowns. And often it is the child who is able to say that the king has no pants on and/or to see the perls trown to pigs :wink:
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Post by Sylvia »

Hey all

Beautiful Losers has got 39 reviews on Amazon and rates just about 6 stars ...
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Post by Henning »

It's christmas soon and time to relax anyways !

http://www.tea-and-oranges.de/game/index.html
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Post by bee »

Tom and Jurica- why are two of you so mad? Why such a vicious attack on Tchoco? Wouldn't it be quite enough to explain the misunderstanding, without all the following insults to Tchoco?
Jurica, Tchoco is quite right, you've been disrespectful to her. You did write the Please thread, which was a control attempt and you got it your way. So, why are you still so mad, what is that about? You are the shepherds over there, and we are the sheep. Now you have the News section for yourselves, but who visits there? As Kush said, who wants to have a news on new LC posters, unless you are a teenage fan, or somebody of that nature?
All that desire to control, dictate, to put people in slots and drawers, what is it all about? With such a force two of you coming on to destroy Tchoco? I am sure, her intentions were not to destroy you, she just were questioning something, what was hurtful to her.
Tom, with bitterness you were complaining about the quarrels on the Forum. Right, we have them, but it is not that often, when it shows intolerance and viciousness, which you, yourself now demonstrated. Feeling disappointed. :cry:
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Post by bee »

Sylvia wrote

Beautiful Losers has got 39 reviews on Amazon and rates just about 6 stars ...
Sylvia-that's right, but Amazon just sells books, as you know, it is a big biz. :roll:
Ernst Casirer- Renaissance Philosophy got only 3 *** which is a shame in my opinion, but that's all about biz, nothing more.
bee
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