Censorship

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Mabeanie1
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Re: Censorship

Postby Mabeanie1 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:17 pm

Athnuachan wrote:Of course we the members do not own this, but it is called a forum so I think it is reasonable to expect open discussion of differing opinions rather than a chorus of " yes people."
Since when were we a chorus of "yes people"? But open discussion does not mean you can say anything you want. There is a right way and a wrong way to discuss issues and voice differing opinions. You can express a contrary view without resorting to personal insults for example. I'm sure the moderators wouldn't dream of stepping in simply because someone had a different view. It's the way you do it that counts.

Wendy
Vicomtesse
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Re: Censorship

Postby Vicomtesse » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:08 pm

Athnuachan wrote:
Zimmy66 wrote:
Check my posts from the last seven days. No, she hasn't been censured. She hasn't apologised. The post is still there, and she doesn't have the common sense to realise that it is libellous.

Robert
Thanks for your reply, Robert. Have done so since.
Very interesting.
A voluminous poster gets away (so far) with personal abuse, while another poster gets posts deleted (making nonsense of the responses which followed) and EVERYTHING he posts branded as "rubbish" by one moderator! The trouble is, what is "funny " or "rubbish" is a subjective judgment - what I think is funny you might consider rubbish and vice versa.
(I know of at least one other personal attack (not on me) which was not deleted. Don't know whether the attacker was rebuked or not. )
As you say, Franks, there are procedures to deal with such attacks. If they are not working, they should be revised.

The easy option here is to keep the head down, post never, or rarely with sweet comments, and you will be universally beloved.

Can't do it.
I'm with Voltaire on this: (And like to think from what I know of LC that he would be too.)
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

Wow!!!
This is the best thread I've read in ages.
I joined this forum a few years ago but only visit now and again and mostly just to view the NEWS items; I just found it too gushing.
I love a good argument/discussion and totally agree with the setiments above. I don't want to be universally beloved and find sweet comments sickening so perhaps with more meaningful debates I'll visit more.
Vicomtesse
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Re: Censorship

Postby Vicomtesse » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:41 pm

Mabeanie1 wrote:
Athnuachan wrote:Of course we the members do not own this, but it is called a forum so I think it is reasonable to expect open discussion of differing opinions rather than a chorus of " yes people."
Since when were we a chorus of "yes people"? But open discussion does not mean you can say anything you want. There is a right way and a wrong way to discuss issues and voice differing opinions. You can express a contrary view without resorting to personal insults for example. I'm sure the moderators wouldn't dream of stepping in simply because someone had a different view. It's the way you do it that counts.

Wendy

Open discussion means exactly that: OPEN, so I would therefore have to argue that one CAN or should be able to say exactly what one would want to say without fear of censorship otherwise it is NOT an OPEN discussion it is CENSORED.
There is NOT a right and WRONG way of discussing issues it is just that it's deemed polite and civilised by the society in which we live to debate without anger, violence and insult to the others involved. It is the rules of society that dictate these rules of right and wrong but I don't necessarily agree with this. I don't get violent but my philosophy is... 'don't treat me like an idiot or I will get angry; insult me but be prepared to recieve the same'.
Another observation that I'd like to make is that I don't understand people who post comments on public forums and then get upset when someone disagrees. You leave yourself open to ridicule just as I am doing here but if I'm ridiculed for this then so be it.
Athnuachan
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Re: Censorship

Postby Athnuachan » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:22 pm

Vicomtesse wrote:

Open discussion means exactly that: OPEN, so I would therefore have to argue that one CAN or should be able to say exactly what one would want to say without fear of censorship otherwise it is NOT an OPEN discussion it is CENSORED.
Exactly, Vicomtesse - perfectly put.
I can see why you would seldom visit this forum now. I still enjoy reading genuine reports from genuine people who were actually at an LC concert, (when I can find them among the dross) and will be avidly looking up reports of the Dublin concerts and probably contributing my own. Apart from that I could happily live without the (newly censored ) LCF. But still, I think it would be a pity if you and other independent thinkers abandoned the forum - then it would be even more inundated than it is with silly and sycophantic posts! (Later edit - Just to clarify, I meant those who " lick up " to the Moderators here, drawing attention to the fact that they know them/have met them, and accepting uncritically EVERYTHING they say and do ! )
Stick in there, Vicomtesse and the few others who defended free speech on the " Forum issue" thread hidden away in "Everything else" .
(Censorship is, of course, much more of a real leonard Cohen issue than most of what appears here on "News"!)
Ring the bells that still can ring...
Athnuachan
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Re: Censorship

Postby Athnuachan » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:41 pm

Now that LC has some well deserved time off, wouldn't it be interesting for "the powers that be" to ask his opinion on a recent "Forum issue" which involved the silencing of a dissenting voice?

Somehow, unless he has changed a lot, I can't imagine him being a supporter of any form of censorship.
Ring the bells that still can ring...
Athnuachan
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Re: Censorship

Postby Athnuachan » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:09 pm

Anyone else missing a certain silenced voice? Probably not - there wasn't much reaction here to the imposition of most un -Cohenlike censorship! Perhaps most people like it boring and predictable - comments monopolised by He., concert reports monopolised by St. Just don't bother clicking on those anymore - know I don't want what I will get. There are still some great concert reports, though, from real people - if you have the time and patience to find them. But the concerts are on the other side of the world... And once they are over there will be less and less reason to check in here - a pity, as the Forum existed long before there were concerts!
Ring the bells that still can ring...
Cate
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Re: Censorship

Postby Cate » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:47 pm

There are public spaces (town squares), private spaces (bedrooms), and places that fall someplace in between. The forum is like one of the places that fall in between – we have a host and we are guests. I don’t think a host saying to a guest who is getting carried away, ‘that’s enough’, is the same as censorship.
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lizzytysh
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Re: Censorship

Postby lizzytysh » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:36 am

PERFECT DESCRIPTION AND ANALOGY, Cate.
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
Athnuachan
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Re: Censorship

Postby Athnuachan » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:30 pm

Cate wrote: we have a host and we are guests. I don’t think a host saying to a guest who is getting carried away, ‘that’s enough’, is the same as censorship.
Really?
What if the "host" says to the "guest" : "GET OUT! I NEVER WANT TO SEE YOUR FACE HERE AGAIN !!! "

That's what happened here.
I suggest you look up some definitions of "censorship".

For example:
"The suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient", as determined by " a government, media outlet, or other controlling body". (Wikipedia)

Fits the bill, doesn't it?
Ring the bells that still can ring...
Franks
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Re: Censorship

Postby Franks » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:32 pm

Athnuachan wrote:
Cate wrote: we have a host and we are guests. I don’t think a host saying to a guest who is getting carried away, ‘that’s enough’, is the same as censorship.
Really?
Yes, really
Athnuachan wrote: What if the "host" says to the "guest" : "GET OUT! I NEVER WANT TO SEE YOUR FACE HERE AGAIN !!! "
That's what happened here.
No, that is not what happened here. The host said. "After several warnings and many complaints from members you continue to violate the rules of our community. Therefor the moderators unanimously decided to ban you."
Frank.
Athnuachan
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Re: Censorship

Postby Athnuachan » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:29 pm

Franks wrote: "After several warnings and many complaints from members you continue to violate the rules of our community. Therefor the moderators unanimously decided to ban you."
"Many complaints"... How many?
Do you know?
I certainly don't, but I would imagine a tiny percentage of those who bother to post here; a miniscule, vocal percentage of the nominal membership.

Some of us spoke up in favour of free speech too.

Clearly some voices are listened to here more than others.

Anyway, have it your own way - why should I care? Christmas is coming !
And if the word "Christmas" offends somebody somewhere - too bad!!!
Ring the bells that still can ring...
Vicomtesse
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Re: Censorship

Postby Vicomtesse » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:35 pm

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “leonardcohenforum.com” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “leonardcohenforum.com” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit.



The above is part of the LC Forum 'rules' that I assume we all signed up to when we joined this site. How many of us actually read them? I don't think I did but I have now, obviously! Do I agree with these 'rules'? Well, I agreed to sign up to them but only because I wanted to join this site to get news, info and good discussion about someone I admire greatly. It's the same when joining any 'club' or 'community', one agrees to abide by the 'rules' of that particular club.

However, these 'rules' are very general and I am totally ignorant of the country or international laws governing such matters so how far can you go before one's ideas are deemed abusive, slanderous, vulgar etc.? Who dictates the guidelines? Some countries are more liberal than others where mini skirts and bare flesh is tolerated and others not so. It's the same with individuals. I hate seeing lots of flesh but I'm not offended by swearing. The 'F' word does not bother me in the least but I suspect if I used it here some would find it highly 'offensive'. There seems to be some rather over sensitive individuals here, saying BOO would be deemed threatening behaviour.

The 'rules' are very open to personal interpretation by the moderators and they probably don't act until there is a complaint but how do they decide when someone has overstepped the mark?

However, I've said this before... Posting on a public forum leaves you open to ridicule and criticism. If you can't take it then don't post!!
Criticism is valid, heated debate is valid so why as adults are some running to teacher and telling tales. My mum taught us 'sticks and stones'; if it's just words they can't hurt, just ignore them. The only time words hurt or are offensive is when they are said by someone you really care for NOT by a load of faceless strangers on a web site.

PS.
I laughed at the part where it said 'sexually-orientated' in the rules. So many of LCs songs are about sex and some of the discussions are quite explicit. So why haven't some of these been 'censored'?

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