Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

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lizzytysh
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by lizzytysh » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:36 pm

Hi Derek ~

Again, I agree. You're right.
Maybe this guy should apologise or not come to this forum again!!!
Neither of these outcomes will ever be realized... or not likely so, anyway. I'm baffled why anyone who is inclined to make this nature of comment spends any of their time here, anyway. To what gain? What real purpose? Nothing said to either of those questions would make it acceptable.


~ Lizzy
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~ Oscar Wilde
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by Diane » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:27 am

OK, Damellon. After Friday next I will be far, far away from computers, so please txt me the venue if you haven't sorted it by then. Otherwise you'll find me down by the river. Will you invite Joe? I don't know. Surprise us. Maybe we could help him rewrite the lyrics to Make me an Island. The title has potential. Look forward to seeing you again.
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by Red Poppy » Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:14 am

Damellon Diane & Co.
I spoke toJoe and he'd love to be at the soiree in Dublin BUT he's actually singingat a Jacques Brel tribute night in Paris on that night and sends his apologies. Tells me he's doing two songs- If We Only Have Love ( with Nico ) and Seaons in the Sun (with Nick Cave).
But he sends his best and has offered a pair of trousers if we want to have a raffle.
Says he'll be helicoptering in for Mullingar with (Big) Tom McBride and Dickie Rock :?
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by Red Poppy » Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:24 am

There is a light in everything,
that's how the cracked get in! :lol:
Young dr. Freud
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by Young dr. Freud » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:23 am

Dear Zenlove and Lizzytysh,

I apologize for saying that Leonard was seriously underfed.

I should have used the words "skin and bones" as another poster did. Or perhaps I should have mentioned his "frailty". Or maybe I should have followed up on another fan's report of Leonard's being "confused" in the hotel lobby. Or perhaps..oh wait, I did use the word "tiny". But others were before me. So, spread the chastisement around.
We consider the context aka the source and, likewise, likely know that Leonard or anyone related to him who might read it will do the same.
I realize you are the forum spokesperson and IFC but do you really expect me to believe that Leonard or anyone related to him is going to consider the source. I think not.

Leonard is old. He is Jewish. He is white. And he most certainly is tiny. Deal with it.

YdF
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by lizzytysh » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:32 am

You're right, YdF. I felt no more pleased with the other references you've mentioned than I was with yours. The same as with yours, I didn't say anything to theirs, either, until someone else did... in this case, Derek. Yours was the first one someone brought to light and I agreed with them. Still do. Yours also had a derisive and mocking tone.


~ Lizzy
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by Tony » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:37 pm

"I think a number of us have grown so weary of it, to the point of not even giving it more energy by responding to it at all. "

I think this quotation could apply to other posters too.
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by lizzytysh » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:47 pm

Yes, I wondered who would say something on that, Tony. Kind of surprized that YdF didn't do it, but he didn't. So, predictably, you were still left with the opportunity.

Now, back to what I came here to add to you, YdF, was that the other terms you mentioned that were used, I considered unfortunate terminology; however, they were used in the context of accounts written by people who had gone to see Leonard in person, and who feel and expressed their deep admiration for him, as well. These terms were used in that context; and had I said something after someone else did, I'd have included mention of that. Your comments, however, come across merely as attempts to diminish both Leonard and Anjani.


~ Lizzy
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by Christine » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:25 pm

I saw Leonard recently and am of course a fan. But I don't see anything wrong with a bit of realism mixed with a touch of irony. In fact, I like it, it's honest. Not to say, Lizzy, that your idealism isn't. But it'd be a yawningly boring world if we all thought and presented in the same way. And the diversity inside of threads is a healthy and much needed part of this forum, at least in my opinion. Maybe we could even use a little more.

Great pics, everyone!
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by Red Poppy » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:52 pm

Lizzy,
On this and the other Anjani strand - Summer tour - you seem to assume that anyone who disagrees with you is set on diminishing Anjani and/or Leonard.
This is not the case.
One thing brought us all here - an interest in the work of Leonard Cohen. But that interest is not necessarilty all-embracing of everything he has written. Nor does a view that one thing might be better (for one or other of us) than another necessarily cast a black shadow across the other work.
I sometimes feel we are being chided for not thinking that everything Anjani does is marvellous, as if by extension the genius of one person should be draped around the shoulders of another simply by dint of an asociation.
I think you needd to give us credit for intelligence and room to express opinions that are contrary. We don't all share your total admiration for everything Anjani does but that doesn't mean, as you seem to suggest, that we set out to denigrate her personally or professionally.
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by lizzytysh » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:59 pm

Not to say, Lizzy, that your idealism isn't. But it'd be a yawningly boring world if we all thought and presented in the same way. And the diversity inside of threads is a healthy and much needed part of this forum, at least in my opinion. Maybe we could even use a little more.
Hi Christine ~

I agree on the diversity needed. For me, the line gets drawn where respect leaves off regarding Leonard's self. It's been interesting to me in reading others' comments, as when I saw him, I never noticed any wrinkling in his shirt, nor the buttoning/unbuttoning of his top button, etc. My focus remained on his face and how he looked at Anjani and the inflections when he sang, and the other facial expressions he had and what he said; and then when I met him, again my focus was on his face and how he interacted with people, with what he said to whom and how.

It's interesting and funny to me your first sentence, in my Quoting there, because we recently took the Myers-Briggs tests at work and my letters were/are INFP. The representative catch-phrase for that grouping is ~ guess what ~ betcha can't ~ betcha will ~ betcha feel sorta silly if you don't :wink: ~ "Most Idealistic" ~ and there are 15 more groupings of people, each with their own catch-phrase. Out of 16 possibilities, wouldn't ya just know it :lol: . Heh, which brings me to another matter... my signature :) :wink: .


~ Lizzy :D
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by lizzytysh » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:07 pm

Hi Red Poppy ~

I'd have incorporated my response to you in mine to Christine, if I'd seen it in time. It's not that I expect everyone to agree with me, and if they don't that it constitutes denigration. The manner of how it's done is what creates that impression. My expressing consternation on that manner is not a slight on what I consider to be your intelligence, nor should it be presumed to be. There are many highly intelligent people here, with varying tastes beyond our communal appreciation of Leonard. That doesn't mean that even highly intelligent people aren't sometimes denigrating when expressing what doesn't agree with their tastes. I'm reactive to people continuing in the vein that you're again alluding to here... that Anjani is being draped by Leonard. Anjani is a highly-skilled artist in her own right... and I feel the reverse is what's happening... that she is being slighted in recognition of that fact due to her affiliation and association with Leonard.


~ Lizzy
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by Red Poppy » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:22 pm

lizzytysh wrote:I'm reactive to people continuing in the vein that you're again alluding to here... that Anjani is being draped by Leonard. Anjani is a highly-skilled artist in her own right... and I feel the reverse is what's happening... that she is being slighted in recognition of that fact due to her affiliation and association with Leonard.
That's inevitable - they are working as a pair at the moment and you, among others, went to see Anjani because Leonard was working with her. (Tell me, hand on heart, that you didn't!!!!)

She's not being slighted, some of us are simply rueing the ebergy that's being put into her career (how many other artists have had an album written/produced for them by Leonard?) that might be more essentially used in his own.

Now that, of course, is his choice and right but when you write about how he looked in her eyes and how his face reacted to song-phrases you are simply proving the point that so much of this discussion is ranging around a singer who happens to be Leonard's paramour.

Most of us would much rather hear Leonard croak out of tune and with feeling than hear a pitch perfect singer deliver his lyrics.
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by lizzytysh » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:37 pm

Hi Red Poppy ~

You are so much proving my own points.

In no particular order:

I mentioned how Leonard looked at Anjani as they sang because it was Leonard being discussed. I was opposing what I noticed to what some others appeared to be focusing on. My being inclined to look past the things mentioned regarding Leonard doesn't mean that Leonard's and Anjani's paramour status with each other is what dominated that scenario. They were singing a love song. It's not so far afield to consider that not only were they dueting on a love song, but that they were singing a love song to each other. What that has to do with the price of tea in China with regard to Anjani's own abilities, however, is beyond me. Leonard has had other paramours, with whom he has not collaborated.

My hand on my heart [just after that phrase was typed ~ gotta get back both hands now to continue], the reason I went to Joe's Pub was to see Anjani perform Live. I made and paid for my reservations prior to having any idea that Leonard was going to be there. In fact, it was in the belief that he wouldn't be. My comment made at the time I decided to go and reserved my ticket was that I wasn't about to blow it like I did with "Came So Far For Beauty" ~ where there were going to be other non-Leonard performers. Flight deals to NYC are fairly available... and after reading all the accounts, I kept kicking myself for not going. When it turned out that Anjani was going to be there, I said to myself and here that I wasn't going to make the same mistake again. My attendance dates at Joe's Pub, however, were later changed due to the anticipated date for his appearing with her, after it was determined that he would be.

Why anyone would rue the time that Leonard has spent assisting Anjani in recording the lyrics he has pretty much written himself suggests some one-off kind of jealousy reaction. Resentment of some kind. On behalf of all those out there with whom he has not chosen to collaborate? The seeming strength of your own feelings causes me to wonder if your invitation for him/them to attend your play was declined due to his being busy with something "Blue Alert"/Anjani related :? .

I feel it's important to remember that Leonard is quite a perfectionist. He is still devoting time and energy to his 'own' album, which I hope whoever of you are feel consternation about "Blue Alert"'s existence are preparing for the fact that Anjani will be there, as well... very happily so, for some of us; maybe even most of us, Red Poppy.
lizzytysh wrote:I'm reactive to people continuing in the vein that you're again alluding to here... that Anjani is being draped by Leonard. Anjani is a highly-skilled artist in her own right... and I feel the reverse is what's happening... that she is being slighted in recognition of that fact due to her affiliation and association with Leonard.
That's inevitable - they are working as a pair at the moment and you, among others, went to see Anjani because Leonard was working with her. (Tell me, hand on heart, that you didn't!!!!)

She's not being slighted, some of us are simply rueing the ebergy that's being put into her career (how many other artists have had an album written/produced for them by Leonard?) that might be more essentially used in his own.

Now that, of course, is his choice and right but when you write about how he looked in her eyes and how his face reacted to song-phrases you are simply proving the point that so much of this discussion is ranging around a singer who happens to be Leonard's paramour.

Most of us would much rather hear Leonard croak out of tune and with feeling than hear a pitch perfect singer deliver his lyrics.
Where does this "Most of us . . . " come from, as though you're wrapping the stats inside your conclusion, all being bundled up in one, as individual and all-encompassing givens regarding Anjani?

Fortunately, Leonard has a high level of discernment and doesn't trust his material to those who cannot deliver beyond this representation of "pitch perfect deliver" which suggests that is all there is... when he entrusted his words to Anjani, he had already experienced that she could be trusted to frame, melodize, and sing them from her heart. She has repeatedly proven that his trust was well placed.


~ Lizzy
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
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Re: Leonard & Anjani Tonight at the Richard Goodall Gallery

Post by Red Poppy » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:09 am

"Why anyone would rue the time that Leonard has spent assisting Anjani in recording the lyrics he has pretty much written himself suggests some one-off kind of jealousy reaction. Resentment of some kind. On behalf of all those out there with whom he has not chosen to collaborate?"

Not so- my point is that Cohen fans (the majority I believe until otherwise proven) would much prefer Cohen singing Cohen to ANYONE else singing Cohen. To borrow an advertising slogan: The original and the best.

Why I would be jealous or resentful beats me - don't have a note (well one that's in tune)in my body, so it ain't me babe.

"The seeming strength of your own feelings causes me to wonder if your invitation for him/them to attend your play was declined due to his being busy with something "Blue Alert"/Anjani related :? " .

Now that is a low remark which surprises me. I invited them out of courtesy and never expected they would cross America and the Atlantic for a play about which they knew little. And the little :? that comes at the end of your sentence doesn't diffuse what is an unwarranted assumption.

I lack many things - one of them is ego.

Strange, Lizzy, that someone who berates others for their supposed nastiness should resort to that kind of nonsense.
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