My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

News about Leonard Cohen and his work, press, radio & TV programs etc.
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lizzytysh
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby lizzytysh » Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:32 am

I'm not patronizing you, Vicomte. Just because your outrage doesn't come with obscenities or vileness doesn't mean that of others can't or shouldn't. Much of what I wrote may seem extraneous to you because of the narrow tunnel vision through which you're viewing this, with your proclamations regarding how people should [shouldn't] grieve. Who's to say how ISIS would view Antoine's video. I could easily construct an alternative view of how they might interpret it. Out of regard for Antoine Leiris, I won't. The essential point is that you don't get to decide what are and aren't legitimate ways to grieve or to speak to a tragedy. Antoine has gotten to where he's at much sooner and faster than most people would or could. There are those who will never get there... and that's okay.

The nature of the losses are individual, too. Antoine still has a son, his and his deceased wife's child together. His child requires his focus and through his child, he still has a part of his wife and some semblance of a life. Along with his religion/spirituality, his child also gives him hope. There are others who may have lost everything they had in these tragedies; losing a husband or a wife when they had no children, or losing an only child, or perhaps losing an only parent. There are many possibilities. Regardless, it remains that grieving itself is as individual as the person trying to endure it. As humans, we have many emotions, and no one has the right to say what is right or wrong in the emotions another person experiences or expresses.

The scenario you construct is possible, cohenadmirer. I hope that won't be an outcome. For me, Oliver makes it clear that it's the Jihadists, not Islamists in general to whom he directs his comments... but there are those who are predisposed to apply them with a broad brush,anyway.

I've watched John Oliver a number of times, too, and found him the same as you have, Kush. I've never heard that song by Dolly Parton, though. Thanks.
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
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LC&LC
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby LC&LC » Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:19 am

Vicomte,
as mentioned, I just found in the mouth of an american the expression of the exact feelings I couldn't have expressed any better. I wasn't telling anyone they were wasting their time watching other videos and to stick to the one I posted. you may be offended by the use or over use of ''naughty naughty F... :oops: word'', but heck, no one speaks like in a Jane Austen book anymore in 2015. I felt it was fine to share this as I felt a tiny tiny bit concerned with what has happened in my country and in my city. sorry if my feelings were expressed in words you disapprove of
2009: Paris, Nimes, Barcelona, 2010: Caen, Strasbourg, Marseille, Tours, Lille, Las Vegas, 2012: Ghent x2, London, Verona, Paris x3, Barcelona, Madrid, NYC, Brooklyn, 2013: NYCx2, Paris, London, Brussels, Rome, Lucca, Hamburg, Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Pula, Manchester, London, Amsterdam, Perth, Sydney, Melbourne, Cairns, Townsville, Brisbane, Sydney Opera House
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby Vicomte » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:44 pm

LC&LC wrote:Vicomte,
as mentioned, I just found in the mouth of an american the expression of the exact feelings I couldn't have expressed any better. I wasn't telling anyone they were wasting their time watching other videos and to stick to the one I posted. you may be offended by the use or over use of ''naughty naughty F... :oops: word'', but heck, no one speaks like in a Jane Austen book anymore in 2015. I felt it was fine to share this as I felt a tiny tiny bit concerned with what has happened in my country and in my city. sorry if my feelings were expressed in words you disapprove of
Dear me! I can swear with the best of them. I come from a large council Estate in West London, smoking at a young age, swearing and fighting came naturally to most of us on that estate. I grew up and moved on, I know when to swear and when not to now. Oliver wanted ratings, he wanted headlines, he has never learned to grow up, any fool can rant and swear and on TV and in his case he thinks it would enhance his feelings, it didn't, indeed it lessened him as a man.
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2018 and over fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby Vicomte » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:52 pm

Lizzytysh,

So now you are telling me I am seeing it through tunnel vision, no I am seeing it from the larger picture, whether you like it or not, does not mean I am seeing it as such, so get that out of your head for a start

Are you really so blind as to not see that the way Antoine Leiris spoke, as against some big mouth OTT yank, will hurt ISIS far more, if you can't see that then you really have no place in discussing this matter any further

And once again you go on and on moving to places where it is of no consequence to the subject matter.

With the best will in the world, you would give an Aspirin a headache, you really would
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2018 and over fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
Neil from The Young Ones
Judy
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby Judy » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:10 pm

For info: John Oliver is a Brit see ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Oliver_(comedian)
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby Vicomte » Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:37 pm

Not for my info as I knew that. He has lived in the States for a while and sees there as home..

Yesterday a friend said to me that him moving from England made it America's loss and our gain.
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2018 and over fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
Neil from The Young Ones
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Kush
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby Kush » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:20 pm

Hi Lizzytysh,

I have found plenty of wisdom in John Oliver's humorous rants and Dolly Parton's songs. However people see things differently. Vive la difference !

p.s. Jihad is also a term hijacked by Muslim terrorists just like Christian Nazis hijacked a Hindu symbol often found in India. I am hearing news reports of businesses in US named Isis (Egyptian goddess) being vandalized and are considering renaming their stores. That is how it rolls. I wonder if Bob Dylan will rename his song !r

p.p.s. Swastika is also a female name more prevalent I think in eastern India. There is a movie actress Swastika Mukherjee who is an interesting / controversial character which has nothing to do with with the more popular perception of the word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika_Mukherjee
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby cohenadmirer » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:09 pm

ISIS is also the name of a long established Bob Dylan fan magazine, a great Bob Dylan song , an ancient egyptian godess,and a world-leading centre for research in the physical and life sciences at the STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory near Oxford in the United Kingdom.

We should all start consistently calling them Daesh.

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/w ... bkC822p_zl.

The so called islamic state is neither islamic , in the true sense, nor a state .It's basically a big gang of murderous thugs. Yes i hate them , but i still feel compassion for the many vulnerable disaffected young people who have been brainwashed by the leaders. I'd just like to gather them up alive and give them to true islamic leaders who can reeducate them as to what islam is really all about ..... but that's a pipedream.
As for john Oliver , who indeed is an english comedian who found , unusually,more fame in the usa than here ,i personally don't think that calling them f...ing Ar..holes gets us very far.
The last bit about french culture compared to Daesh culture was good , but done better by a journalist on british tv last night.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/bbctw?src=hash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIKg3Qexn7U

BTW reading the last several posts , including mine , methinks that the moderators might soon be thinking this is getting too political, and banish the posts to the nether regions of the forum. I hope not.
i don't forget the original emphasis and hope that the forum members caught up in paris a week ago are all doing well.I also want to say that my biggest hope is it isn't too late to visit Paris in the future for a Leonard Cohen concert. always good to here the french audience response to 'the partisan'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX1XQE1NYw8
The words have an added resonance
Last edited by cohenadmirer on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
Leonard's work resonates
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Vicomte
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby Vicomte » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:01 am

Yes, we always watch Andrew Neil's programme, which always comes on straight after Question Time. Far better put than Oliver's but then Neil is often a class act, not that I always agree with "Brillo Pad"mind you....
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2018 and over fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
Neil from The Young Ones
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby cohenadmirer » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:05 am

Vicomte wrote:Yes, we always watch Andrew Neil's programme, which always comes on straight after Question Time. Far better put than Oliver's but then Neil is often a class act, not that I always agree with "Brillo Pad"mind you....
Neither do I , but he is a good political interviewer and it's always fun to see what colour the brillo pad is 'this week'.
He has a good sense of humour too- much more subtle than that of john oliver.

For those who watched it , i thought that george galloway was also on good form on the programme
Leonard's work resonates
Brighton 1979; Dublin , Manchester june 2008; glasgow, manchester Nov 2008; Liverpool july 2009 ; Barcelona Sept 2009 ;marseille, lille september2010: Ghent August 2012;Barcelona October 2012;Montreal x2 November 2012: 2013; Saint John NB April 2013; Brussels June 2013;Manchester August 2013; Leeds , Birmingham September 2013; Amsterdam September 2013
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lizzytysh
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby lizzytysh » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:06 am

Life is like that, Vicomte. Many layers, many shades and hues. If you feel I complicate the matter too much, you can certainly bypass the detail, and focus on whatever black&white issues you think have relevance.

Political comedians [Jon Stewart/in this case, John Oliver] don't have to have directly experienced something to make valid commentary. When the response is "Yes! Exactly!," then they've tapped in to what others are feeling and given them voice. It's clear that, whether or not you approve or agree, John Oliver did that very thing. Jon Stewart did it nightly with the more subtle approach that you prefer. I wish he were still here to comment.

Tidy grief is far easier for others to watch and take in; much easier to 'stomach' than grief that shows the rawness of being human. Rawness in grieving [anger, profanity, rage, depression, or wailing] forces us to face our own feelings of powerlessness and helplessness. We don't know what to do and don't know what to say to that person, if they're in our presence. Even on our screens, we are impacted. It can be very visceral and scary to witness raw grief. For some, the video you posted works best. For others, the video LC&LC posted works best. Again, everyone processes grief differently. There has been plenty of anger in France this past week. There continues to be plenty of anger in Britain and the U.S.

I don't have time to watch the other links/commentaries right now, but will later. Many types of people in the world. Many commentaries that speak to the depths of each. What the terrorists want most is to turn 'outsiders' [the West] against Muslims [period], so the latter will be more inclined to join the Caliphate they're working toward. Whether or not we are angry at the terrorists doesn't seem to matter as much to them as that we turn against any/all Muslims. That's what they believe will work best toward their cause.

By the way, there's no reason for me to cease commenting here. I already know that what I'm saying is valid. I also initiated the thread and my original reasons for doing so still hold true. It's unfortunate that you came into it with the attitude of "my way or the highway" ~ it's an impossible expectation.

Thanks for confirming that, Judy. I thought John Oliver was a Brit, but didn't have time to confirm and comment on it this morning before I had to leave.

I didn't realize "Jihad" was of different origin, Kush. Also didn't know about Swastika. I was aware of ISIS being an acronym for something that I can't think of right now, and that the entity was considering making a change. I'm hearing and reading disturbing news, now, about chemical weapons being developed, including with the assistance of scientists helping ISIS do it. With the attack in Mali now [I know at least one American was killed there, and someone told me five], it's feeling like the world may be in for a rough ride of tragedy :cry:
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby Blulisbeth » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:30 am

There is what we feel , what we lived, what we want to communicate and the way we do it . There is not one best way to do so . In these video in very different ways what is said is the insignifiance of the people who made the attacks : We go on being living . Both of them touched me.
It's not easy to speak after that , but we need to find a way to share .
Being dead is also not to think , not to feel ...with our precious differences.
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby basecamp » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:05 pm

LC&LC wrote:everyone's entitled to his/her own opinion, as it happens this 'obscene ranting' expresses exactly my feelings
Mine as well! Thanks for this!
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby andrea » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:45 pm

This I found on italian national newspaper with a big title

REP TV / BELGIO
Hallelujah nella città
Violoncello per Bruxelles

In una Bruxelles blindata, per il timore di attacchi terroristici, risuonano le note di Hallelujah, il capolavoro di Leonard Cohen reinterpretato, nel 1994, da Jeff Buckley. Una colonna sonora che rende tutto più "surreale", come scrive la donna che ha pubblicato questo breve video su Twitter, nelle ore del "lockdown" che prevedono la chiusura di scuole e uffici pubblici. La performance dell'artista di strada, nel centro della città, si svolge a pochi metri da un mezzo dell'esercito, a testimonianza del clima di massima allerta che si respira nella città belga. A Parigi, dopo gli attacchi del 13/11, un pianista italo-tedesco ha emozionato i cittadini suonando Imagine davanti al Bataclan, uno dei luoghi presi di mira dai terroristi dove sono morte 89 persone

http://video.repubblica.it/dossier/pari ... ef=HRESS-4

A comforting/consoling music...so good to hear Leonard`s music in this circumstance, this cruel realty . It helps to feel HOPE .
Thanks to the musician ...and thanks to Leonard .

Andrea
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Re: My Heart and Prayers are with Paris & with the Forum People Who are Safe!!!

Postby cohenadmirer » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:01 am

Thanks andrea.
A beautiful instrumental version of Hallelujah, and a brave performance giving , as you say , Hope in a city that at the time was under ' lockdown'.Disturbing to see the armed vehicle a few yards away but that presence would i guess make people feel safer if sad that ' it's come to this'
Leonard's work resonates
Brighton 1979; Dublin , Manchester june 2008; glasgow, manchester Nov 2008; Liverpool july 2009 ; Barcelona Sept 2009 ;marseille, lille september2010: Ghent August 2012;Barcelona October 2012;Montreal x2 November 2012: 2013; Saint John NB April 2013; Brussels June 2013;Manchester August 2013; Leeds , Birmingham September 2013; Amsterdam September 2013

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