The Holy Longing, Goethe

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Diane
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The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby Diane » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:04 am

The Holy Longing

by Johann W. Von Goethe, translated by Robert Bly


Tell a wise person, or else keep silent,
because the mass man will mock it right away.
I praise what is truly alive,
what longs to be burned to death.

In the calm water of the love-nights,
where you were begotten, where you have begotten,
a strange feeling comes over you,
when you see the silent candle burning.

Now you are no longer caught in the obsession with darkness,
and a desire for higher love-making sweeps you upward.

Distance does not make you falter.
Now, arriving in magic, flying,
and finally, insane for the light,
you are the butterfly and you are gone.
And so long as you haven't experienced this: to die and so to grow,
you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth.


-------------------
Judy
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby Judy » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:04 am

... this made me think of "Love Itself" ... Ten New Songs

Thank you Diane :D Happy day, everyone.
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Boss
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby Boss » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:52 pm

Diane wrote:The Holy Longing

by Johann W. Von Goethe, translated by Robert Bly


Tell a wise person, or else keep silent,
because the mass man will mock it right away.
I praise what is truly alive,
what longs to be burned to death.

In the calm water of the love-nights,
where you were begotten, where you have begotten,
a strange feeling comes over you,
when you see the silent candle burning.

Now you are no longer caught in the obsession with darkness,
and a desire for higher love-making sweeps you upward.

Distance does not make you falter.
Now, arriving in magic, flying,
and finally, insane for the light,
you are the butterfly and you are gone.
And so long as you haven't experienced this: to die and so to grow,
you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth.


-------------------

I humbly remain troubled;
even with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npbUFXzGS8c

in the world.

What about you, Diane?
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Diane
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby Diane » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:22 pm

It's a marvellous poem isn't it, quite riveting I'd say. Pointing to the same unity as Love Itself, yes Judy, but passionate rather than subtle.

Dear Adam how excellent to see you here.
Boss wrote: I humbly remain troubled;
even with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npbUFXzGS8c

in the world.

What about you, Diane?
I guess I'm one of Goethe's troubled guests too, despite a truck-load of music - - but not while the music plays:-)
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Boss
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby Boss » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:24 am

Music is either sacred or secular. The sacred agrees with its dignity, and here has
its greatest effect on life, an effect that remains the same through all ages and epochs.
Secular music should be cheerful throughout.

Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

Here is some 'sacred' music by a Jewish man, Neil Diamond:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8clrOQ_6QKE

To our detriment, little is sacred today. We poison the air, burn-off the forests, pollute the
oceans. Oh, we try this and that, we talk; but nothing works when greed leads. When Christ
wrecked the stalls in the temple he was protecting the 'sacred' from greed. Did anyone listen?
How much does The Vatican 'make' from tourism? It's all greed. You know, I notice people's
signatures on this Forum. Some people have gone to see Leonard 10 times or more. If you have
that sort of money, see him once and give the rest to the people of Haiti. I wonder what
Leonard does with his millions?? I still believe, one day, Justice will prevail.

In peace,
Boss
lonndubh
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby lonndubh » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:09 am

Hi Boss
Thanks for the reminder of Neil Diamonds beautiful music
I know so much that is sacred today -so so much
Its the vibrations of this sacredness that will burn through
And yes you are right -Justice will prevail
But Money Or Lack Of It Will Have Nothing To Do With That .
I dont have so much money and i remember life when money was hardly mentioned
and what Leonard does with his money is his own business .
After all its only another energy
and putting it on a higher level than anything else is making a G-d of it .
Well thats how I look at it anyway
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Diane
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby Diane » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:26 am

I don't agree that there's a clear distinction between the sacred and the secular. I agree with what Lonndubh said. Everything is sacred and not-sacred.

Adam you are still turning every thread into a discussion about money and greed. I think the more you discover the sacred within your self, the more you change your own behaviour (which is all you are in charge of, ultimately), to be less greedy and to act in ways that benefit not just yourself but the wider world. That doesn't necessarily mean going to fewer concerts. Leonard Cohen is not much concerned with money I don't think, and he has donated to charity - in Israel, and in Australia, as recent examples. Also, in the news section there is talk of an upcoming charity concert in Cambodia.

There is an African proverb I came across recently that I like a lot:

If we go forwards, we die. If we go backwards, we die. So let's go forwards and die.

(I've been searching to see if Goethe has written any other good poems, but they all seem pretty tame, compared to this one.)
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby imaginary friend » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:18 pm

This thread is loaded with treasure!

Goethe's poem (thanks Diane)

Lonndubh's poem (that's what it is –thanks Lonndubh)
I know so much that is sacred today -so so much
Its the vibrations of this sacredness that will burn through
And yes you are right -Justice will prevail
But Money Or Lack Of It Will Have Nothing To Do With That .
I dont have so much money and i remember life when money was hardly mentioned
and what Leonard does with his money is his own business .
After all its only another energy
and putting it on a higher level than anything else is making a G-d of it .
Well thats how I look at it anyway
Diane's African proverb:
If we go forwards, we die. If we go backwards, we die. So let's go forwards and die.
...And Boss telling it the way he sees it (and no prisoners). Boss, I agree that the shift needs to happen. In you and me, before we can hope to see it anywhere else.

Judy, thanks for reminding me of Love Itself; there was a video posted here, discussing the Buddhist implications in that song, but now I can't remember which section/thread I saw it in. Can anyone point me to it?

XO to all of you
Judy
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby Judy » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:05 am

Just tried to post the link to the video but it didn't work :(

... maybe Diane knows how to do it ... you should be able to find it if you key in "Leonard Cohen, Sasaki Roshi, & "Love Itself" video" in the search box.
lonndubh
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby lonndubh » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:57 am

Hi Im Friend .I think there are two parts to the video
Maybe this is what you were talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSv5ELuu ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MgjpMbADA&feature=fvw
imaginary friend
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby imaginary friend » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:20 am

That is the video I was looking for – thanks Judy and Lonndubh.

I didn't realize there was a part 2... I like the explanation below the video explaining what part 2 is about.

Thanks again!
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Diane
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby Diane » Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:16 am

Hi Imaginary:-) Nice to see you. Thanks for your comments. I don't think I have seen part two of that video myself - ta for finding, L - must earmark for tomorrow. There are a few vids of Shinzen Young on youtube. He is a very good speaker/writer, imo.

I am glad you like the African proverb. I read it in an article in The Sun magazine - an interview with Malidoma Some who was raised both in a tribe in West Africa, and in the West, and has made it his vocation to teach the West what can be learned from traditional African culture. I have sent for his autobiography, Of Water and the Spirit: Ritual, Magic, and Initiation in the Life of an African Shaman.

The first part of the article is online.

http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/41 ... two_worlds

Adam you might find it interesting, too:
There is a fundamental flaw in the radical rejection of past practices in the name of “civilization.” To return to old practices that are nature based and that open the door to experiencing the magic and beauty of this world, we must de-emphasize consumerism and reemphasize spirit.
Nos da. x.
imaginary friend
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby imaginary friend » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:24 am

Interesting article Diane; Malidoma Some's belief in the role of initiations to create a sense of purpose and connection to one's society is thought-provoking. In our Western society, sometimes we create our own 'homecomings' by way of making a life-shifting move, often after an ordeal (though not necessarily a physical one). Makes me think of Leonard's shift to the monastery, after Boogie Street threatened to overwhelm his spirit. Or Bill Gates shift from corporate greed/monopoly to extraordinary philanthropy... perhaps we all have this innate wisdom that tells when we have traveled too far towards a dead-end, although not all of us have the courage to jump off of a moving train in the night...
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Diane
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby Diane » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:17 pm

Hi Imaginary! Yes, thinking about it, the common thread in African initiation rites, the propulsion of Leonard into the monastery, and Bill Gates' philanthropism (thanks for the examples), is that they involve moving from a sense of confusion, to close and deep self-examination, followed by clarity.

Malidome Some explains that rituals are powerful for westerners not because of anything he teaches them, but because during these rituals mental inquiry stops, and they are pushed to let go of their defences. I am curious to find out more about these rituals.

The other aspect of indigenous culture that interests me, is how deeply they respect the natural world, of which we are a part (as Alan Watts was so fond of saying - we come out of this world and not into it).

It seems that this deep wish we have (the holy longing?) to become united with ourselves is a part of the same wish we have to be united with other people, and utlimately - with everything.

It's all good stuff isn't it. Cheers.
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Re: The Holy Longing, Goethe

Postby Boss » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:30 am

...And Boss telling it the way he sees it (and no prisoners). Boss, I agree that the shift needs to happen. In you and me, before we can hope to see it anywhere else.
You got it wrong, Imaginary – so very wrong. It’s out of our hands, sister. You see, you and I can ‘shift’ any way we like; but G-d is the author. He is something more than intellectual banter and hollow dreamscape; He is the King of the Universe.

Sh’ma Yis’ra’eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
Barukh sheim k'vod malkhuto l'olam va'ed.


'Hear O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is One.
Blessed be the Name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever'

The sky is about to open up and I can only sing a song of one word: REPENT!

'But you don't really care for music, do ya'?'

Boss

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