CD Burning & The Human Choice

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Paula
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Postby Paula » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:10 am

Velvet we in Britain pay £15.99 for chart or new releases that is the equivalent of $28.50 we are being ripped off.

Rick I used to pay 3p = 89c for a loaf of bread I now pay £1.10 = $1.96 it is called inflation, A 12 pack of coke over here costs £3.59 which is $6.41. And a pair of This message has been classified as spam and will be deleted by the moderators trainers cost approximately £120 or $215. The retailers in Britain make the prices up as they go along.

We pay throught the nose for everything petrol is extremely expensive if we put the equivalent of $20 in our tanks it wouldn't last a day. If we were paying the same prices as the USA they wouldn't have so much trouble with downloading. Can you explain to me why we pay double the amount you pay for the same product?

If you are earning £100 = $178 a week would you be prepared to pay $28.50 for a CD?
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Postby Guest » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:08 pm

Paula,
I don't think it's a matter of paying $28 for a CD, it's a matter of paying whatever the market price is. I dont' have a grasp on world economics so don't really understand why things cost what they do in different parts of the world (hey, I barely passed accounting!).
The point I'm trying to make is you can't single out CD's. Yes, you can rip them off much easier and thus avoid the high price but don't blame the record companies for gouging as a justification (I'm referring to the general "you" not you specifically).
I'm also not saying the record companies are the good guys. I think it's a business that has done business like all others, possibly worse than some and better than most. It's not a perfect system but they receive so much abuse so people can justify theft, plain and simple. My feeling is go steal Cokes as well if you want to make a statement.
Anyway, just my thoughts on the matter.
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Postby Velvet Landmine » Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:37 pm

Anonymous wrote:Paula,
I don't think it's a matter of paying $28 for a CD, it's a matter of paying whatever the market price is. I dont' have a grasp on world economics so don't really understand why things cost what they do in different parts of the world (hey, I barely passed accounting!).
The point I'm trying to make is you can't single out CD's. Yes, you can rip them off much easier and thus avoid the high price but don't blame the record companies for gouging as a justification (I'm referring to the general "you" not you specifically).
I'm also not saying the record companies are the good guys. I think it's a business that has done business like all others, possibly worse than some and better than most. It's not a perfect system but they receive so much abuse so people can justify theft, plain and simple. My feeling is go steal Cokes as well if you want to make a statement.
Anyway, just my thoughts on the matter.
Don't you think that consumers who download have been a wee bit over-demonized, though? Don't forget that there were people in the music industry pushing to have resales of music made illegal (meaning you couldn't have such a thing as a second-hand music shop). Could you imagine being arrested for illegally reselling CDs at your own garage sale?

If I buy a blouse and then loan it to my friend, is that a crime? If my friend expresses an interest in a band I like, is it a crime for me to burn him or her a compilation CD? From a legal perspective, file-sharing is not a crime. Back in the 80s when the culprit was the cassette tape, US courts ruled that sharing music was a crime only if the distributor earned a profit. That's why Napster went down...because Napster was turning a profit via advertisements on its site.

From what I've been able to gather (from the few news agencies discussing the issue with any depth), the only reason that record companies have been successful in their suits against 'regular people' is because they've out-lawyered them. Given equal legal representation, if RCA or whoever were to sue me, I'd win in court because I've SHARED--not SOLD--music. But I can't afford the same legal representation that a record company can, so in the real-world scenario I'd lose. This tactic by the record companies works because it scares people.

So again, you're right in terms of CDs theoretically being priced according to what the market will bare(sp?). But I'm saying that consumers have found a way around paying for music--a way that won't go away. Sure, many consumers will be scared off of illegal downloading, but there will always be a huge group that continues to do it unless the music industry comes up with a better solution.
rick
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Postby rick » Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:59 pm

"Don't you think that consumers who download have been a wee bit over-demonized, though? "
Well, no, it's not theirs to "own". They didn't pay for musicians, studio time, packaging. They didn't spend countless hours playing and messing around until a tune came to them, then develop and work that tune until it became a song. They have no rights to it at all, unless they agree to help pay for the time and effort that was put into it. Even then, if they purchase it, they have no right to let millions of other people have access to it. It's not theirs to decide what can or can't be done with that song.

"If I buy a blouse and then loan it to my friend, is that a crime?"
No, but it's not quite the same thing. There has always been, since the cassette days, an issue about duplication. But this is quite different. You're not about to make a million copies of a cassette and send it around the world to your closest friends. That may be "sharing" but it ain't gonna happen.

The bottom line is that it clearly says duplicating and distributing without express written consent is against the law. If you purchase a CD you can legally make copies of it for yourself but, again, it's not the same thing.

The people that are doing this are kids because they don't have the means to purchase the songs. They need to know that it is against the law. Regardless of arguments for or against the record companies, the fact remains that it is illegal. And the record companies have every right to pursue those breaking the law.

I understand your point. However, copies of illegal software are everywhere. Software companies actively pursue legal avenues to stop it. The fact that it's not going to go away should not stop them from protecting their interests. If anyone decides that they are going to download music for free and to heck with the record companies and the artist, then they should be prepared to accept the consequences.

I know it's a touchy subject and 1 person downloading a song they like seems harmless enough, but it's not Mary running over to Sally's to give her the latest CD to copy. Mary's loading the CD for millions and millions of people to copy, people she doesn't know. This is simply not acceptable.
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Paula
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Postby Paula » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:00 pm

Hi Guest - no need to steal coke it is reasonably priced. I could get 50 cans for the price of one CD :lol: It is blatent over pricing by the record industry that is causing the damage.

How do you equate the artists bleating about the loss of their royalties and the fact a large majority lip synch at concerts where tickets can cost an arm and a leg.

Surely on that basis they are cheating the buying public in the same way they think the non-buying public are cheating them.

I very rarely download music off the net and when I do it is songs I can't get elsewhere but I can totally understand those who do.
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Postby Guest » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:41 pm

Where are your statistics that there is blatant overpricing? Show me where this is. Statistics show that CD prices have not increased at any greater rate than any other product. This is a myth being pushed by those trying to justify theft, plain and simple. There is NO truth at all in it.

"How do you equate the artists bleating about the loss of their royalties and the fact a large majority lip synch at concerts where tickets can cost an arm and a leg."
That's quite a generalization you got going here. From this statement all artists are whining about royalty losses and most of them lip synch. Again, where are the statistics for this. I would bet that this isn't even close.

Now, if you look at the prices of concert tickets... whoa! Those have gone through the roof. I don't hear people complaining about that. A one time deal, you either catch them on a good night or not.
Then take a CD. Name me one other product that you can buy for $20 or less that you never ever ever have to buy again and still get as much enjoyment from it 10, 20, 30 years from now as the day you purchased it. I maintain that music CD's are the best bargain out there.

Sure you can buy a Coke on sale, you can also buy a CD on sale.

I would think that if people are concerned about workers wages (the artists in this case) that there are far greater battles to fight than recording artists. Unions are being busted everywhere. Wages are down. Benefits are slashed left and right. Yet profits are up and corporate greed is at an all time high. But people who steal music only show concerns for the artist getting their cut or record labels are too greedy. Rubbish. Just not true. Fight the good fights and give the artist their cut buy buying music.
Theft is not the answer.
By the way, I'm rick, I keep forgetting to log into this section.
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Paula
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Postby Paula » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:59 pm

Rick I have no idea about statistics but I do know the basic cost of a CD is pennies, add in the marketing, advertising of and don't forget a hefty slice for the producers then pay the artist the bare minimum and voila you have managed to pay an over inflated price for a CD.

It is not the big artists who suffer so much although they do the bleating, it is the up and coming talent. An artist only needs to sell a couple of million CDs worldwide and even on the basis they get a £1 a CD they have made £2,000,000.

You only have to look at a show like Pop Idol to know the winners in the music business are people like Simon Cowell and not the talent they purport to encourage. It is a easy come easy go attitude with people like Cowell there is always some other youngster they can exploit.

A long time ago in Britain the music industry were promoting "Keep Music Live" meaning go out and support your bands at concerts and venues. Lip synching is a growing fashion what you have on stage are highly paid dancers lip synching. If you are paying £60 for a ticket to see a band the least they can do is sing their songs live. If they can't sing live they should advertise what they are dancers who can lip synch.

It is mostly the young bands/singers who have a shelf life of approximately three years and are exploited by the men in suits. It is not all a one way street.

By the way 50 cans of coke for one CD, the coke is not on special offer it is just £3.50 for 12 cans all the time and £15.99 for a new release all the time.

Can I assume you are either a musician or make you living in the music industry because you are acting like I am stealing your life's blood
rick
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Postby rick » Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:00 am

Ok, I'm signed in!
You forgot the janitors and secretaries, promotion, studios, engineers, equipement, distribution, office supplies, on and on.
Less than 3% of all records released sell over 500,00 copies. There are very very few released records that make huge profits. This is not cut and dried.

But, again, you have to buy that Coke over and over and over and over again! You buy a CD one time!

Well, I think I've pretty much run the course on how I feel about this! I understand it's easy and people think they're getting ripped but easy and a false "truth" don't make it right. At least in my opinion.
Done! :D
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