Michael about Tom Waits

Forum for collectors and traders' of Leonard Cohen's music and poetry.
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constantsorrow
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Postby constantsorrow » Fri May 07, 2004 8:03 pm

Yes, we should not tolerate this kind of cheater and thief.
September_Cohen
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Location: Quebec city, Canada

Postby September_Cohen » Fri May 07, 2004 9:05 pm

Gather people Gather....the masters of war are still here...more subtle but more mean and vile.


"You don't need the weatherman to know which wind blows" and you don't need to be cheaten before talking!
One for the money
Two for the show
Three to get ready
Go man go
I said tell me Mr. Siegal
How do I get out of here
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Sat May 08, 2004 2:33 am

It's hard to accept that this young man/boy would do this. He could've not intended to, but then got caught up with the greed of it all. If he did intend it from the git go, such an interesting technique ~ you hold out a carrot [the LC-related poster], and goodwilled people wanting it offer to trade you something they think you might like, perhaps something rare.

I'm very disappointed :( , and it's not even the loss of a videotape sent [though I would definitely love to have it back, to send to someone else!] or the lack of new Springsteen/Dylan material to my world, so much as the feeling of being violated in the realm of trust ~ and the feeling that someone intentionally 'took' from you. And, I gave it willingly; yet, his intent somehow enters in. But should it?

Is this where we turn our attention to the issue of "attachment" and "acceptance," as we get out our Zen manuals and study the relevant lessons :shock: ? Or, just let this be a living lesson of its own, and go on, turning our attention to other things [after we plaster his name, address, and info all over the Internet, of course :wink: ] ~ and wait for him to get a PO Box :? .
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linmag
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Postby linmag » Sat May 08, 2004 2:37 am

This is the second time that I have sent material off to someone from this site, and have not received what was promised in return. They were both young men, and they both visited here very briefly - one based in Canada, one in the north of England. There has to be a large element of trust involved in trading, and these people make it very difficult. When one person lets you down, it's very difficult to trust the next one.
Linda

1972: Leeds, 2008: Manchester, Lyon, London O2, 2009: Wet Weybridge, 2012: Hop Farm/Wembley Arena
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Sat May 08, 2004 2:43 am

Well, you may have had better luck, Linmag ~ but there's one from the U.S., who sent me a copy of something of his own [and I supportively sent him $5USD for it, as well as another $5USD for him to send it to someone else, as well ~ which never happened]. He was supposed to send me something else of his, which never happened. Then, he offered here to send something, and I expressed my interest, with nothing happening.

You're right that it does begin to gouge the trust. I guess the trading would do better to wait until someone's been around awhile :? ? What a shame.
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Paula
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Postby Paula » Sat May 08, 2004 11:39 am

Lizzie "what goes around comes around" :lol:

I trust people until proved otherwise. It is better than being suspicious of people. I have been conned by very few people in my life and often only for small amounts - the woman who knocked on my door at 2 in the morning and said could she lend a £5 as she had run out of petrol, she was crying and promised to bring it back - she didn't. They still laugh at work about it :lol: But I would rather have erred on the side of caution. If she had been genuine she would have had major problems. I lost a fiver and a bit of trust in human nature but I would probably do the same again.

Now we know that Cohen Knight is less than honest we don't do it again. I hope he hasn't burned loads of copies and sold them on ebay.

I can live with myself and maybe Cohen Knight can live with his self but he will get his comeuppance.

Tom has a good point. Altho it would be quite hard to discover who is scamming without declaring every time you send stuff out and never got anything back. Perhaps one person could be used as a post box and informed of trade and whether it it reciprical or not. That way if someone is on a scam they will be collared before they have conned too many people and the rest of the board updated if it appears someone is less than honest.
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Sat May 08, 2004 2:42 pm

I agree on that great ~ and, oh so useful ~ phrase. I use it over here, and find it quite perfect.

Ohhhhh, dear, Paula ~ Did I not send you something I'd promised? All I can remember is suggesting this or that, and you saying, "No, that's fine, I don't need anything back." My getting-it-in-the-mail process is slow, but the outcome is sure. Things have quickened since I got my own cd burner, but I still have to go out and pay for copies of videotapes [the costs for which I do not pass on to my tradee], which takes considerably longer. But, keep the faith when it comes to me. I won't cheat you.

Now, this is a perfect time to ask ~ if I owe anyone, anything, please let me know [here, PM, or e-mail ~ doesn't matter]. I've been working on a "promised" list, but it's been in my head, so if I'm behind with someone, this is a great time to remind me. A'af, I'm still doing yours.

That sounds like a good idea ~ the thread that would name the no-follow-throughs. It might at least discourage people from going that route.

I'm like you with the not losing faith in people. I'd also rather err on the side of caution. Unfortunate that I have no idea where her address is; however, I also lent that magic amount [$5.00 USD] ~ I was waitressing at a nice place [a fairly isolated one], and a woman came in asking for gas money, as she'd just ran out. I can't remember all the details, but her story was logical re: credit card/no credit card with her or if it would do any good. Everyone responded to her askancely, as though she were derelict to even ask. I took the money out of my tips from my pocket.

She thanked me profusely [the relief of getting it, plus how everyone else had reacted to her] and left. She returned about 1/2 hour later with the money, plus her Dad's business card and her phone #. He owned a limousine service, and she said whenever I wanted I could bring someone and come to her house, and they would take us in a limo to Universal Studios and Disney World, and as I'm recalling maybe Epcot [though not certain on that], all for free. All for faith and $5.00 ~ both returned in Spades.

Love,
Lizzy
altinkum
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Postby altinkum » Sat May 08, 2004 4:17 pm

I too offered this guy a copy of Blossoms from heaven, ashes from hell, fortunately for me he never took me up on my offer, and I am also still waiting for a poster. I have been grateful to members here for stuff that I would never have been able to get anywhere else, it would be a shame if people became wary of trading because of a bad few.
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Paula
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Postby Paula » Sat May 08, 2004 4:40 pm

Lizzie - you don't owe me any trade :lol:

I agree with Altinkum - Margaret and Pete have increased my collection greatly and I am totally indebted to them so in the words of the Osmonds "One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch".
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Sat May 08, 2004 5:04 pm

Maybe Michael woke up and just be :oops: at the last minute about sending wretched posters full of scotch tape, tear up and so on.

Or he may be just careless or selfish. Or he may have problems that we are not aware of. Etc. etc. etc.

For sure, to make his trial without having his version of the story and moreover to lynch him on the public place without any sort or trial will not be of any help in this case, and not really better than what you are accusing him.

Not without mentionning that your fetichism sometimes goes a little too far for me, but OK. Never mind.

For the rest, unless you are sure that the person you are trading with is OK, may I suggest that you don't send anything to someone before having received the material? To make a list of trustable people on the site is the best post I have read here.
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
September_Cohen
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Location: Quebec city, Canada

Postby September_Cohen » Sat May 08, 2004 9:57 pm

I got friends near of Lachine. Contacts are fun sometimes. The cheater is a real stupid guy to give us his real adress. For myself...I not only want my cdr back but I want them burned. In the list of trustable people, I'm on the top...but not in the list of patient-with-traitor people. I'm not a tolerating guy. The trial must be done, absent is always wrong.



Ps. I don't got a harley...i'm affraid of speed.
I'll probably go there on a green bicycle ;) Take this émoticon
in the teeth
One for the money
Two for the show
Three to get ready
Go man go
I said tell me Mr. Siegal
How do I get out of here
Tchocolatl
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm

Postby Tchocolatl » Sat May 08, 2004 11:54 pm

Sept, what if, I say IF, the cheater is a real smart guy that took the identity of an innocent that he had cheated also, let say on another site completely? What will happen then? OK. Lets go further. What if this cheater has stolen YOUR identity and is using it right now on the site of Who Ever, and some good willing bad tempered guy is en route to bang you an émoticon in the teeth because he sent "you" material and "you" did not answered yet? Nothing can be more dangerous than a mob in fury againts an individual. Be careful. Green bicycle is not an issue when the whole thing is out of control.
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
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margaret
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Postby margaret » Sun May 09, 2004 1:58 am

There is no frenzied mob here, just some trusting and generous people expressing their disappointment in someone who appears to have duped them and shaken their faith in human nature :( No one is seriously going round to his house to make him pay!

Looking back, when this "personable young man" first visited, his first post was a new topic in the Collectors Corner, "Cohen Boots", inquiring about sharing music.......it looks like he got what he came for then left and changed his email address. It's even possible the address he gave us was also only somewhere he used to collect his mail from.

It's all very sad.
Tchocolatl
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm

Postby Tchocolatl » Sun May 09, 2004 2:10 am

Yes Margaret, you are right : no mob in a fury here, OK. Right. But please do not let him also the power of robbing your faith in human nature!

The list! Get a list. There are all kind of human natures out there, just list the people you can trust and people you can not.

If he really did it in purpose, it is, in fact, very sad, and it will be very very sad if it should happen again. The next to come here like that will have to send the material first before having his/her name on the list. If he/she is honest he/she wll certainly not be offended to be part of this protecting process that protects him/her also.

Take care fans.
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
September_Cohen
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:37 pm
Location: Quebec city, Canada

Postby September_Cohen » Sun May 09, 2004 9:05 am

"There was a murder in the city...they said Dignity was the first to leave"...or I think it is something like that.

Dignity...young horny girl.

Hey Tchoco...do you think i got time to wait on such things. Maybe this...maybe that...maybe he's sick...maybe he's gay...

No time for love on this kind of cheating land.

It is a civic adress...people answered me.

Yeah...Dignity...and BALLS were the first to leave!!!!!
:evil: Emoticon in the freak!
One for the money
Two for the show
Three to get ready
Go man go
I said tell me Mr. Siegal
How do I get out of here

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