Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

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Jimmy O'Connell
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Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby Jimmy O'Connell » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:06 pm

Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Persecution, says Bloom, all the history
of the world is full of it. Perpetuating
national hatred among nations.

What is your nation, if I may ask,
says the citizen. Ireland, says Bloom,
I was born here. The citizen said nothing
only cleared the spit of his gullet.

On Bishopgate Street a child rides
shakingly on his new bike, his hajib
covered mother trailing behind. Walking
by the Joe Dolan [life-size] statue a girl
reads from a letter to her mother, hesitating
over each word: ‘the appointment must be
confirmed before the date otherwise…’
The mother asks something in Polish, or
Lithuanian; the girl repeats more confidently.

These mosaics of St Patrick and St Anna
were commissioned by the Bishop of Meath,
designed and executed in the Marian Year
by Boris Anrep, muse of Akhmatova.

A nation, says Bloom, is the same people
living in the same place. By God, then,
says Ned, laughing, if that’s so I’m a nation
for I’m living in the same place for the past five
years. Bloom says, trying to muck out of it:
Or also living in different places.
Oh bless the continuous stutter
of the word being made into flesh
-The Window-
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Jimmy O'Connell
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby Jimmy O'Connell » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:22 pm

Did a bit of editing on this one.
Hope it has improved it a little....
Oh bless the continuous stutter
of the word being made into flesh
-The Window-
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Geoffrey
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby Geoffrey » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:53 pm

Jimmy O'Connell wrote:
>Did a bit of editing on this one.
>Hope it has improved it a little....

nah, still no good
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Jimmy O'Connell
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby Jimmy O'Connell » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:30 am

Ah Geoffrey....
Harsh, man...
Oh bless the continuous stutter
of the word being made into flesh
-The Window-
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Geoffrey
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby Geoffrey » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:40 am

Jimmy O'Connell wrote:
>Ah Geoffrey....
>Harsh, man...

not really. your poetic effort had received zero response, and my negative message was a stab at encouraging people to actually read it. when i post a picture, one's eye can instantly view it. a poem is different, especially if it is quite long. one has to spend time ploughing through it, and for many people that is work. had leonard cohen not maneuvered from writing poetry over into a singing career, he would never ever have achieved almost global fame. the majority of people simply want to sit back and relax when they get some leisure time; look at a picture or listen to music, for example. they want speedy and undemanding entertainment, and poetry certainly does not fall into that category. of course some people (mostly women) like to curl up with a good book, but they are a minority group, and the books they buy are unlikely to be poetry. people write verse, if one can call it that, for their own benefit, for its therapeutic value - almost nobody else is even slightly interested in what they write. so yes, i was "harsh", but it was nothing personal, merely a disguised attempt to help you get a response. it has never been in my nature to be genuinely horrible to someone, it was just a tactic to help someone.
https://jerichowriters.com/poetry-market/
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Jimmy O'Connell
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby Jimmy O'Connell » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:51 pm

Well, Geoffrey, I suppose I ought to be thankful.
For what I'm not sure.
This section of the forum is called the Poetry Place, not the Picture Place.
Maybe poetry has some value, there seems to be a few thousand, at least, willing to read poems in this section.
Oh bless the continuous stutter
of the word being made into flesh
-The Window-
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LisaLCFan
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Re: Reading, writing, painting, drawing, singing in the Cohen Forum

Postby LisaLCFan » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:05 pm

Jimmy O'Connell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:51 pm
...This section of the forum is called the Poetry Place, not the Picture Place...

Well, actually, this section is called, "Writing, Music and Art by the Forum Members", so I am pretty certain that that would include pictures of an artistic nature, as well as poetry.

Nonetheless, I did read your poem (even before Geoffrey's reverse-psychology attempt to encourage people to do so), and I thought that it was interesting and rather thought-provoking. Thank you!

Geoffrey wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:40 am
...the majority of people simply want to sit back and relax when they get some leisure time; look at a picture or listen to music, for example. they want speedy and undemanding entertainment, and poetry certainly does not fall into that category. of course some people (mostly women) like to curl up with a good book, but they are a minority group, and the books they buy are unlikely to be poetry. people write verse, if one can call it that, for their own benefit, for its therapeutic value - almost nobody else is even slightly interested in what they write. ...

I think that poetry has value, not just for those who write it but also for those who read it. I suspect that there may be others around here who share that view, seeing as though we are all, presumably, admirers of Leonard Cohen, who was, amongst other things, a poet.

Also, since many of us were Leonard Cohen fans long before his massive popularity post-2008, I think that puts a lot of us in the minority when it comes to what we enjoy in our leisure time.

Therefore, while Geoffrey's comments may apply to the average person in "the majority", I do not think that they necessarily apply to the average LC Forum member. If they did, we probably wouldn't be here at all.
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Jean Fournell
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby Jean Fournell » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:53 pm

For what it's worth:
The poem prompted me to purchase "Ulysses" by James Joyce.
Then I took to reading it, and I managed to get as far as the first sentence:

"Stately, plump Buck Mulligan came from the stairhead, bearing a bowl of lather on which a mirror and a razor lay crossed."

Ever since, day and night (well, unless I do other things), I keep trying to "lay crossed" a shaving mirror and a razor on a bowl of lather:

lay crossed32%.png

Unsuccessfully, so far.
___________________________________________________
Therefore know that you must become one with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the target
to say nothing of the horse.

... for a while
... for a little while...

(Just a filthy beggar guessing / What happens to the heart)
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Jimmy O'Connell
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby Jimmy O'Connell » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:59 pm

The section from Ulysses I quote from is Cyclops.
Depending on your edition it's about 300 pages in.
It begins: I was just passing the time of day with old Troy...
The setting is an old Dublin pub, where the Citizen and his dog Garryowen hold court; Leo Bloom (a Dublin Jew) is listening in on the general conversation... which is centred around nationalism and identity....

The last section Penelope is Molly Blooms soliloquy.... which is magnificent....
Oh bless the continuous stutter
of the word being made into flesh
-The Window-
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LisaLCFan
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby LisaLCFan » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:56 pm

Jimmy O'Connell wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:59 pm
The section from Ulysses I quote from is Cyclops.
...
The last section Penelope is Molly Blooms soliloquy.... which is magnificent....

I have never read Ulysses. So, are you saying that this is not a poem that you wrote, and that you just copied it from Joyce? Or, did you use his verses as a framework and change things? Can you please clarify?
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Jimmy O'Connell
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby Jimmy O'Connell » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:10 pm

Lisa,
The first two stanzas and the last are direct quotes from Ulysses. But Ulysses is a novel. I restructured and edited from Joyce and formed his words into stanzas.
The middle section is my own observation of what I see in a local town in Ireland, where we have many non-Irish, and non-Irish-born-in-Ireland people and families. I am making the point that they too are what Leopold Bloom a Dublin Jew, would have experienced in Dublin in Joyce's time, an outsider but also Irish and a citizen of Ireland. Boris Anrep, a Russian artist created the mosaics in Mullingar Cathedral, was welcomed here to work (1954) and his mosaics are a reminder of the international flavour of our country and its openness to so-called "outsiders"; and I might add the openness of the Irish Catholic Church at the time to non-Irish artists.
Oh bless the continuous stutter
of the word being made into flesh
-The Window-
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Jean Fournell
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby Jean Fournell » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:48 pm

Jimmy, thanks for your help identifying the passage in "Ulysses" you are referring to.

Most generally, the first sentence of a novel is a kind of key, and therefore should be understood, lest the entire thing be incomprehensible.
Here, I think the "stairhead" is the flight at the top of the stairs.
The shaving equipment I gave up on.
I'll also drop the sequence "Stately, plump Buck Mulligan came..." (is he both stately and plump? is he plump and nevertheless moving in a stately fashion? both possibilities at once? neither? something different altogether, emerging from the whole?).
The second important element often helping to get "into" a novel is the last sentence. I'll skip that, too all the more so as it's only some 22 pages long.

In my edition (Wordsworth Classics), the passage you mention begins on page 263; the first line is entirely in capitals. The next line entirely in capitals is on page 312 (The summer evening had begun to fold the…).
I'll have a look.

(The book was still waiting on my bookshelf, along with a few others, for me to find a cardboard box for them to go and join the "exiled ones".
In his "Introduction" (page XVII), Cedric Watts has:
"Ulysses is exuberantly experimental in its rendering of consciousness and in its endeavour to exploit, with immense virtuosity, the resources of language. It expects from the reader a sense of humour, a readiness to connect detail to whole, an ear for themes and leitmotifs, a memory for the riches of literary and musical culture, a sensual responsiveness, and immense imaginative stamina."
In short: it's not for the ones like me.)




After your second explanatory post, I found this on page 299:

Persecution, says he, all the history of the world is full of it. Perpetuating national hatred among nations.
But do you know what a nation means? says John Wyse.
Yes, says Bloom.
What is it? says John Wyse.
A nation? says Bloom. A nation is the same people living in the same place.
By God, then, says Ned, laughing, if that’s so I’m a nation for I’m living in the same place for the past five years.
So of course everyone had a laugh at Bloom and says he, trying to muck out of it:
Or also living in different places.
That covers my case, says Joe.
What is your nation if I may ask, says the citizen.
Ireland, says Bloom. I was born here. Ireland.
The citizen said nothing only cleared the spit out of his gullet and, gob, he spat a Red bank oyster out of him right in the corner.
___________________________________________________
Therefore know that you must become one with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the target
to say nothing of the horse.

... for a while
... for a little while...

(Just a filthy beggar guessing / What happens to the heart)
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LisaLCFan
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby LisaLCFan » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:47 am

Jimmy O'Connell wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:10 pm
...The first two stanzas and the last are direct quotes from Ulysses. ... I restructured and edited from Joyce and formed his words into stanzas. The middle section is my own observation ...

Thank you for clarifying that!

Jimmy O'Connell wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:10 pm
...his mosaics are a reminder of the international flavour of our country and its openness to so-called "outsiders"...

Sounds like Canada! Cheers!
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Jimmy O'Connell
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby Jimmy O'Connell » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:51 pm

Jean,
So you can see what I chose to do with that particular piece you quoted!!
Glad I was able to put you in touch with James Joyce. His book of short stories "Dubliners" is much more accessible and an easy read.
Good luck

Jimmy
Oh bless the continuous stutter
of the word being made into flesh
-The Window-
lazariuk
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Re: Reading Ulysses in Mullingar Cathedral

Postby lazariuk » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:20 pm

Reading all the responses and your poem did take some time. Haven’t decided yet if it was time well spent. What is obvious is that you are well liked and that if I want to be well liked it would serve me to be friendly with you. It is making me laugh that I still care about such things. Well thanks for occasioning me to laugh. I just decided that it was time well spent.
Everything being said to you is true; Imagine of what it is true.

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