Shall we dance?
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- Posts: 1874
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:37 pm
- Location: Bangor, N.Ireland
This is a tricky one indeed.
Firstly I do not intend to pass judgement on this poem one way or the other. Others have waded in with their opinions in this regard and .
What is particularly interesting is the emotional content carried with those opinions. What is the reaction here? Is it the content or the literary merit of the verses? Or are the reactions we see posted more a revelation as to the issues that confront the consciousness of the individual posters? Good or bad, the verses have struck a nerve or two within those that have read and chosen to respond. Maybe the verses are in bad taste or maybe the verses are simply art executing its function however crude or sophisticated the poetry may or may not be.
George has touched on a topic here that most of us would prefer to sweep under the rug. The moles of miskey are more at home with the warmth and comfort of the cave. The shadows of denial keep us from confronting the real problem. We like to confer that there is no problem. We like to dress the emperor in the grand finery of new clothes. We do not wish to see things as they really are. The "human condition" is a topic of discussion that we would prefer to expunge from the agenda. What dignity can possibly be extrapolated from the very act of gassing or shooting or bombing or slicing or incinerating other humans? Surely we owe it to the victims of the past and the possible victims of the future to tell it like it is
So may I humbly suggest;- that before we or I or us or you rush in to respond to this post or the poem in question with a knee jerk reaction that we, I, us or you consider what is it within us or me that is reacting? What is it that has been offended or outraged or stimulated, or dismayed or whatever? We have all contributed to the content of this discussion and pointing the finger at George really is missing the point. But then humans do habitually miss the point don't they. (I know I do )
Regards with respect, Witty Owl.
Firstly I do not intend to pass judgement on this poem one way or the other. Others have waded in with their opinions in this regard and .
What is particularly interesting is the emotional content carried with those opinions. What is the reaction here? Is it the content or the literary merit of the verses? Or are the reactions we see posted more a revelation as to the issues that confront the consciousness of the individual posters? Good or bad, the verses have struck a nerve or two within those that have read and chosen to respond. Maybe the verses are in bad taste or maybe the verses are simply art executing its function however crude or sophisticated the poetry may or may not be.
George has touched on a topic here that most of us would prefer to sweep under the rug. The moles of miskey are more at home with the warmth and comfort of the cave. The shadows of denial keep us from confronting the real problem. We like to confer that there is no problem. We like to dress the emperor in the grand finery of new clothes. We do not wish to see things as they really are. The "human condition" is a topic of discussion that we would prefer to expunge from the agenda. What dignity can possibly be extrapolated from the very act of gassing or shooting or bombing or slicing or incinerating other humans? Surely we owe it to the victims of the past and the possible victims of the future to tell it like it is
So may I humbly suggest;- that before we or I or us or you rush in to respond to this post or the poem in question with a knee jerk reaction that we, I, us or you consider what is it within us or me that is reacting? What is it that has been offended or outraged or stimulated, or dismayed or whatever? We have all contributed to the content of this discussion and pointing the finger at George really is missing the point. But then humans do habitually miss the point don't they. (I know I do )
Regards with respect, Witty Owl.
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- Posts: 1874
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:37 pm
- Location: Bangor, N.Ireland
Dodo Bird, What CRAP you write.
I don't think Hermitage or Lizzytysh, Laurieak or Even Moonlight's observations on this poem were "kneejerk."
Oh, really! Nobody here has swept the holocaust under any rug. Don't pretend for one minute that George is being some kind of brave and insightful poet opening the eyes of the blind who refuse to see the horrors of humanity.George has touched on a topic here that most of us would prefer to sweep under the rug.
Tell it like it is? Is that what George has done. No. It was just an excuse to indulge in his sexual fantasies while wrapping it up in a history lesson for the rest of us.What dignity can possibly be extrapolated from the very act of gassing or shooting or bombing or slicing or incinerating other humans? Surely we owe it to the victims of the past and the possible victims of the future to tell it like it is.
I don't think Hermitage or Lizzytysh, Laurieak or Even Moonlight's observations on this poem were "kneejerk."
To Mark B. Sadly you really have missed the point of my last posting, as you habitually do to most of what I and others have written. Insults are a poor substitute for considerate discussion and good manners.
Firstly the topic I alluded to is the "human condition" not the specific incident of "the holocaust". And why is it that you respond with such hostility? You are not examining your own response at all.
Now, whether George is telling it like it is remains debatable. I was attempting to make a generalised remark with reference to a specific situation. The facts of history are not 'that' which is being swept under the rug. It is the reasons and understanding of why humans behave in appalling ways that is being avoided. Do you really think addressing me as dodo bird is an intelligent contribution to a discussion. Labelling something as "crap" in bold lettering reveals more about yourself than it does about the writing that you label so.
Perhaps others observations on the poem were not knee jerk nor did I make any specific assertions as such. What I did anticipate was a knee jerk reaction to my posting and you have clearly done just that.
I would respond to any considered discussion but I will refrain from responding to any further ill mannered opinionated attacks.
Regards, Witty Owl.
Firstly the topic I alluded to is the "human condition" not the specific incident of "the holocaust". And why is it that you respond with such hostility? You are not examining your own response at all.
Now, whether George is telling it like it is remains debatable. I was attempting to make a generalised remark with reference to a specific situation. The facts of history are not 'that' which is being swept under the rug. It is the reasons and understanding of why humans behave in appalling ways that is being avoided. Do you really think addressing me as dodo bird is an intelligent contribution to a discussion. Labelling something as "crap" in bold lettering reveals more about yourself than it does about the writing that you label so.
Perhaps others observations on the poem were not knee jerk nor did I make any specific assertions as such. What I did anticipate was a knee jerk reaction to my posting and you have clearly done just that.
I would respond to any considered discussion but I will refrain from responding to any further ill mannered opinionated attacks.
Regards, Witty Owl.
Mr Owl~Hostility comes from frustration. Some of us (individually) have tried to make a pointed statement about the (horrific) poem. You want to talk about something else, while ignoring all that is said unless it is positive towards the aforementioned poem. You DID infer the negative press was "knee jerk." Speaking in ultra-proper english may feel superior but it does not make it so. Appalling behavior, indeed.
Laurie, your assumptions have gone awry. I am not ignoring any thing nor do I expect responses to be positive. In fact some of the negative comments are more deeply thought than some of the positive. I did infer that some comments were knee jerk but many were not. If you re-read the context of what I said you will see that I was appealing for future comments to be thought through. And yes I do want to talk about something else but most are reluctant to as I anticipated.
Your remark as to my use of english is sadly ignorant and you might consider editing those lines. It does not show you in a good light.
Regards respectfully, Witty Owl.
Your remark as to my use of english is sadly ignorant and you might consider editing those lines. It does not show you in a good light.
Regards respectfully, Witty Owl.
Woodsy, you are one control freaking owl.
Mark the Mole
Poor dumb moley forumites can't reach your incredible heights. Why, oh why, are they so reluctant to be guided in the right direction. Why do they cling to the narrow confines of their underground nests when you are pointing the way to all the soaring updrafts of the "human condition." Why, oh why, did they not discuss your wonderful ideas in Moles in Denial. After all, you told them to.And yes I do want to talk about something else but most are reluctant to as I anticipated.
Mark the Mole
Desist
Sirwitty,
Please, please, please stop using "firstly."
Secondly, it's driving me crazy.
Astonishingly,
Babz
Please, please, please stop using "firstly."
Secondly, it's driving me crazy.
Astonishingly,
Babz
One's life has value so long as one attributes value to the life of others, by means of love, friendship, indignation, and compassion.
~Simone de Beauvoir
~Simone de Beauvoir
Firstly, I will address Babz. Very formal of you to address me as sirwitty but as yet I have not been appointed a knight of the realm. As you are so easily driven astonishingly crazy I shall attempt to refrain from using "firstly" in all future posts. I trust this will be to your approval. Cheers;-
Mark B. I shall attempt once more to clarify my ambiguous communication for your edification. The moles are all of us. Yes all members of the human race including (get this) myself. The "denial" posting was not directed at "dumb forumites"; but if the cap fits------?
To suggest that I or any one else could even attempt to control directions at these forums is a nonsense. The human condition is a downward spiral; certainly not a soaring updraught! The interest for me in discussing this thing of the human condition, our alienation- stems from some reading I am engaged in at the present time. The ideas are not mine. I was simply writing a simple tale to pass them on. That no one is interested in taking up the discussion;- is an indication that the assertion of the author I am reading is correct.
Regards, Witty Owl.
Mark B. I shall attempt once more to clarify my ambiguous communication for your edification. The moles are all of us. Yes all members of the human race including (get this) myself. The "denial" posting was not directed at "dumb forumites"; but if the cap fits------?
To suggest that I or any one else could even attempt to control directions at these forums is a nonsense. The human condition is a downward spiral; certainly not a soaring updraught! The interest for me in discussing this thing of the human condition, our alienation- stems from some reading I am engaged in at the present time. The ideas are not mine. I was simply writing a simple tale to pass them on. That no one is interested in taking up the discussion;- is an indication that the assertion of the author I am reading is correct.
Regards, Witty Owl.