Thieves on Ebay!!!

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:59 pm

I am for the option that we put this Rob's Q in LFAQ (less less...

but what will we answer: you can buy it in local alt.store if you live in countries like Germany, France, or go to the collectors fair like in UK, or you can buy it from thiefs on eBay? The only way to help is like yesterday with WiTS from China, he has the good access to the web and he found collectors download sites I linked and start download immediately.
Contrary, that is old issue which leads us back to "how to help real fans get bootlegs" so they don't need buy them (even some collectors are selling to the newcomers because they need money for buying CDRs/new burners etc

) The best way is always to do B&P, the newcomer sends blanks CDRs and for postage, so only thing the person who gives is the friendly burning and giving away some some time. Of course, how can we know that the person who sent you for B&P isn't cheater and that he/she will not later anonimously sell the items further? And can I burn and B&P the whole days? So maybe one day we will make more organised fan club, like, there are 10 persons listed with the collection, and according to the place he lives, and current willingness of the collection owner, the newcomer will choose one person, make an agreement, send B&Ps and get the CDRs burned back in 2 weeks. And only one B&P because with 10 CDRs (best small size of post package, and the cheapest) she/he can trade on his/her own in the future.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:02 pm

An answer could start with, "Don't buy them on e-bay! There are serious collectors here who are willing to help you." That would, hopefully, begin to thwart those who come here trying to obtain bootlegs for the very purpose of later profiteering on e-bay.

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:02 pm

jurica wrote:but on the other hand, someone may be more interested in bootlegs than studio recordings. then comes the question of morality. are we stealing from Cohen if we help them get bootlegs before studio stuff?

Yes, we are. Please, the official recordings first.

But again, some shows are available for free friendly download. Is the good way to maybe put 5 best shows online (but does eveyone has access? I guess yes, it's the modern world. I personally don't have burner, DVD burner, my computer at home is Windows 98, and yesterday I bought my first DVD player - and what, I do have almost all circulating shows, many VCDs I even made with one friend, and for now, have 1 DVD which I also made with my friend. Ther's always some friend around or place you know where you can do such things.)

diamondsinthemine · Post by **diamondsinthemine** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:11 pm

Hmm. I've mixed views on this one. As someone who has purchased a number of VCD/DVD discs from eBay and elsewhere I've been grateful to be able to get a hold of the material. I've not always had other material to trade or known where to go to trade for it. What irks me more is when it turns up in poor quality. I'd warn against the trader going under the name 'leonardcohendvds' on ebay for this reason alone.

I do agree with Tom that it's frustrating when material we've shared as traders turns up on the market, - a few years back I was part of a cartel of Dylan fans that got together to raise a couple of thousand pounds to liberate an unseen early clip from a TV archive. Imagine how we feel when we see that being flogged on eBay! However, I tend not to blame the eBayers but the record companies - why isn't some of this stuff commercially available? Why can't I buy 'Bird on a Wire', 'The Song of Leonard Cohen', ' San Sebastian 1988' and so on from my local megastore? That would put the eBayers out of business. All we can legitimately buy are a couple of short live CDs and the 'Introducing..' DVD! One of the aims of my Dylan/Cohen websites has always been to demonstrate to the record companies that the demand is there for this material if they would but release it!

Perhaps one way of tackling the eBay issue isn't to price them out of business (which just pushes up the price for genuine fans) but to list stuff ourselves at low-low prices that removes the profit motive. It's for the above reasons I'm flexible when trading my material and will consider 'donations' (books, cds or, yes, the 'c' word (cash)) if people don't have the material - after all everyone has to start somewhere and not everyone wants to get into the trading scene.

Frankly I'd rather not have to trade at all and just order everything from Amazon!

constantsorrow · Post by **constantsorrow** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:08 am

Tom Sakic wrote:Somebody on eBay is selling Hannover 1979 soundboard on two CDRs. It's the tape I got from Jim Devlin and Arturo in Poland tranferred it into the CDRs. Sad. You feel much more cheated when you know it's the CD you & your friends made for free circulation.

There is always someone who will make profits of the kindness of others.

The seller ammac34 from UK is selling on ebay a bunch of live Cohen CDRs

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:42 am

diamondsinthemine wrote:Perhaps one way of tackling the eBay issue isn't to price them out of business (which just pushes up the price for genuine fans) but to list stuff ourselves at low-low prices that removes the profit motive. It's for the above reasons I'm flexible when trading my material and will consider 'donations' (books, cds or, yes, the 'c' word (cash)) if people don't have the material - after all everyone has to start somewhere and not everyone wants to get into the trading scene.

That's similar to my idea. But when I said to people "you know, there are many out-of-print books you could try to find in your local used books store in US/Canada I can't never find in Central Europe at all, I'll send you two packages of CDRs (cost + air mail postage for circa 25 CDRs = 30$)", well, nobody reacted. But I will post my updated wish list when I see that you're doing similar thing, so maybe one day...
And for newcomers to the recordings, I agree, maybe we could do some kind of such foundation one day.
I also was and am considering ebay because 20 dollard isn't so much when you cannot find Reykjavik 1988 DVD for instance. I can understand that.

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:44 am

constantsorrow wrote:The seller ammac34 from UK is selling on ebay a bunch of live Cohen CDRs

I don't even had the 1985 London show. Well, does those people really making money? What, they trade and then sell the items they got? I'll never understand such people.

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:08 am

I'm cursed with an old computer complete with the smallest screen ever made. I can't even read this thread!

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:26 am

Yes, the posts get pretty wide sometimes. It's usually because of attachments like pictures and so. I think this time that long link is to blame.
I also can't read the half of it:)

diamondsinthemine · Post by **diamondsinthemine** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:47 am

Well I've just about had it with eBay sellers. Someone is listing Cohen DVDs using my artwork at £30 each!!! I've responded by putting a selection of my DVD up for 99p each in an effort to at least stop people being ripped off.
Can't say I'm entirely happy about selling this type of material on eBay but I see it as one method of countering the rackateers - even at the risk of ending up one myself.
I know it's probably not the right solutiion but I'm hacked off at seeing work which I've done for the benefit of fans and fellow collectors being shamelessly exploited. At least I'll put any profit back into the site to continue to promote LC's work.
I'm off to bang my head against the wall.

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:01 am

Diamondsinthemine:

Well, one thing about banging your head against the wall, it feels good when you stop. Sometimes a person just can't win for losing. I've heard too much bad news about eBay to do anything but look. They started out fine but now?

As it is now, I no longer do online banking or pay bills online (can do all that at the bank or on the phone). Computers and their anonymous quality sometimes do lead to rip-offs, etc. Unortunate.

Sorry about your artwork, DVDs, etc. I hate it when people get used. Particularly when you did for Cohen fans. As a Cohneite, myself, I can't imagine offing any of the things I've collected! I guess all I can say is "sorry, and I sure hope it doesn't happen to you again".

You might want to seek out a neuorologist after all the headbanging. Walls and such can do damage. That on top of everything else could lead to a very bad month/year.

Scooby Doo · Post by **Scooby Doo** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:57 pm

By posting your items on E-Bay you've made yourself just as bad as they are.

Let's face it, you openly sell VCDs and DVDs to any one on your Diamonds In The Mine website who asks.

Why are you any different from those who sell on E-Bay?

SD

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:14 pm

I don't know the participants in this conversation, but I think 99p is probably more to the point than 30 GB.

Scooby Doo · Post by **Scooby Doo** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:29 pm

99p or £30, by selling on E-Bay He becomes as bad as them!

SD

diamondsinthemine · Post by **diamondsinthemine** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:09 pm

Sigh. "as bad as" is a tad judgemental Scooby Doo. I don't actually object to people offering non-commercially available items for sale. If you'd read my earlier post you'd understand I'm quite grateful to them sometimes. What I object to are the combination of rip-off prices and poor quality that seem rampant at the moment. (and anyway - you've just recommended eBay to somone on the other eBay thread!!!).

Yes - as I've also already mentioned, I prefer to trade for new items (and do so with several memnbers of this Forum), but the reality is, as a long time collector I have most of the basic stuff the average fan will have. Should I just say No? I'd love to give the stuff away but have neither the time nor resources, so give me a break - I'm trying to help people in what is a no win situation (damned if I do, damned if I don't!). By hosting what I hope is an informative and useful website I'm at least trying to make a contribution to supporting and celebrating Leonard's work.

Can I repeat that what I would really like to see, and as fans we should be doing something about, is getting Sony or whoever to release the classic, major documentary and concert films that they doubtless have pristine copies of in the vaults. The eBay phenomenon proves there is an appetite for it.

Linda - head better, stopped banging! Thanks.

Thieves on Ebay!!!

You've made yourself just as bad