Just when I climbed this whole mountainside... (Wales 2009)

[Yorkshire Lad]

Great poem Pete but :
May I suggest a second verse
To tell us how it got much worse
As Bernie bragged of double heaven
With two young men aged twenty seven
And Ken observed she was seeing double
Which could only lead her into trouble
For instead of two studs wanting more
she had only one aged fifty four

[efc]

Rob you are still going on about this. I suppose I am lucky Ken came after I called him a sarky scouse git (is that Liverpoolist?), with reference to his supposed racist, and merely cheeky, comments. I mentioned at the time this first came up that I thought some of the comments in this thread could be seen as being rude to a newcomer. I don't feel the need to keep repeating myself. These things are a matter of context and intention and this was just intended as banter and I am 100% certain of that. As for Welsh involvement, apart from Carys, Kwills had never intended to join the group as far as I know, and said so from when she joined the thread. I did meet her and we got along very well. It is nonsense to imply that I am anti-Welsh. My son is Welsh. If you had come along you might have come to a different conclusion from the one you persist with. No further comment.

I am indeed "still going on about this", it's called expressing an opinion. As you well know Carys' view on this was very clear, and Kwills has talked about the disparaging attitiude of (some) English towards the Welsh. So even if they disagreed with my view, which they clearly don't, it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I don't suggest you are anti-Welsh, or at least overtly anti-Welsh. What I do suggest is that your singling me out over this issue means that by implication you go down the road of defending and/or supporting Ken. I do add though that the more you dispute my stance, the more you actually ally yourself with Ken. In other words your behaviour amounts to endorsing Ken's attitude. That's not the view I would take If you had taken a neutral stance.

In any event you miss the point. Ken may well have meant his comment (and let's not forget that this throwing stones at the Welsh in Wales comment is not the only such comment he has made in that vein) as banter but that doesn't mean it's not offensive. Clearly there are people who have made comments that we both find offensive who would think they are being humorous, or correct. Part of my arguement is that some English consider that having a go at the Welsh is fair game.

Let's look at throwing stones at the Welsh in Wales in more detail. Who says that. Who says then they are going abroad that they're going to throw stones at the locals. No-one with any sense, because it's an unnatural and artificial sentiment That's the place that Ken occupies. And you completely ignore the fact he was happy to repeat his comment when challenged.

Your suggestion "If you had come along you might have come to a different conclusion from the one you persist with." is dsingenuous. I didn't join yourselves because you made, by implication, Ken's comments official policy of the group.

[efc]

Dear efc,

I know that I should probably just not make myself heard on this thread any more, and that you as well as liverpoolken, coming in from completely different angles, but still similar as to effect, are no doubt going to tell me to stay out of this. But - why not let things lie for the time being, when the weekend in Wales seems to have been so great for everyone involved? why stir things further once they seem to have been resolved to everyone's satisfaction by some very helpful moderators earlier?! Why not simply look forward to Barcelona - where I, for one, will be happy to buy both you and Ken a drink or two (you will not have to have them together)?! Call me naive, but I cannot really help it... Kind regards!

Hi Womanfromaroom. I remember you. I said that Henning didn't mean anything untoward when commenting on the Welsh dialect, and you agreed with me

[efc]

Would love to be there but I'm at Union meetings in Sheffield and travelling that weekend

(John is Welsh from Port Talbot)

Congratulations John on being Welsh from Port Talbot. I'm sure Welsh John from Port Talbot doesn't talk about throwing stones at human beings

[efc]

"You might want to get your facts right. Only three Welsh people have posted on this issue, Carys, Kwills and myself. Not all of us have said the same, but there has been overlap. Aside from myself, Carys in particular was very clear in her views."

Are you being deliberately obtuse? We have met with Carys and Beti on several occasions. They are ladies. I hope they remain good friends of ours. They are generous and I think it is remiss of you to bring Carys' name into your remarks. As for Kwills, Diane has answered your remarks. We had hoped to meet Kwills on Sunday but it was not possible to do so.
Anyone reading this thread will see that I did get my facts right. Once again, I feel that you are intent on spoiling what was a tremendous weekend; a weekend that for four of us, was made even better by the care, courtesy and generosity of two Welsh speaking friends, Carys and Beti.
I concur with Ann from yet another country. Let it settle and look forward to Barcelona.

Where do you get "...it is remiss of you to bring Carys' name into your remarks." from. Did you miss Carys' reference to "racist babble". Perhaps you're talking about another Carys, whilst being "deliberately obtuse".

I've referred to Kwills' comments about the attitude of some English. What do you think of her opinion.

As for "I feel that you are intent on spoiling what was a tremendous weekend; a weekend that for four of us, was made even better by the care, courtesy and generosity of two Welsh speaking friends, Carys and Beti." you sound a touch dramatic.

Btw did Ken apologise to the Welsh you mention for his comments.

[Diane]

One more pic from top of Cadair before I turn in. Sorry it's just of boring scenery and not the antics in the pub, but I will leave those to ye others.

[daveeliver]

Hi All,
It was a great few days.
Thanks to everybody for all their efforts and camaraderie and especially for being the people that you are.
The locals will certainly remember our visit, and Sue,the landlady of Tal y Don, wishes she had been part of the fun (or at least been able to provide refreshment).
Euan and Lisa were great at the Royal and it was impossible to desert them.

I wish I had learnt to speak Welsh in my happy childhood years living in Wales,and, if I had,a detour via Bala to the car park below Cadair Idris may have been avoided.
Ty Nant ........
Thanks to Ken for being so understanding.

I took too many photos and will upload them to photobucket after Barcelona and will also make a few discs for those in Barcelona.
Barcelona v Atletico Madrid Saturday night. I'm so pleased!!!!


The following are a few of my favourite photos which may give a flavour of he weekend and show the beauty of the country, the photos in the next post were taken on Monday afternoon and were possible because of the open heartedness of LFC.

All the best See you all soon
Dave
aka Dave the navigator

[daveeliver]

the next post

[daveeliver]

The last for the moment, must start working.

[Alan Alda]

I'm really enjoying the pics. Sounds like an amazing time.

Thank gawd it didn't snow..............

[Diane]

I love your pics Dave. I thought we were going to gloss over your slight detour before Cadair:-)

Laurie! Good of you to pop in here. Yes, thank heavens it didn't snow;-)

Couple more Cadair summit pics, and the first of the descent:

[Henning]

Oh happy days .... As others have stated already, it was the best fun in a while. Diane and Tim left nothing to complain about though they know it is what people love to do. It goes without saying that besides the fun in the bar and its mouth (German humor - Barmouth - have a laugh) we must not forget that we made a little history.

In a few years when the LC walking tours have grown bigger and bigger and professionals will take over the job to organize groups of hundreds and thousands of fans to meander together with the LC smile on the face and the LC tune on the lips there will always be thought of those 8 pioneers who started the whole energetic group action on September 11, 2009 with the ascendance on Cadair Idris and reaching the summit at 2.54 in the afternoon. The names will be engraved in stone at each parking lot to the feet of Cadair Idris:

Dave Everett, Ken Forsythe, Christoph Franz, Henning Franz, John Morris, Tim Vincent, Diane Williams, Joe Way

The only woman in this group will emerge as the new Welsh heroine. In every council office a photo of hers will sit next to the first minister of Wales. The latter will change, Diane will remain. A statue showing Diane will be raised on the marketplace of Cardiff, boys of 16 will touch her iron breasts.

The evenings in the Royal closed the day and thnx to Bernie and her well rehearsed entertainment show the minutes were filled with fun til the very late hour.

I personally ended up finding myself in the world's most famous football stadium at Anfield Road. It was only due to Dave's great connections that we were granted a special tour alongside the pitch into the rooms where no fish comes: The press room, the players lounge etc.

Special thanks to Dave for getting us from the airport, showing us detours, bringing us to the Mercyside and introducing us to the best of the best: The pints and the pitch.

Finally a word dedicated to Ken, our best man, Liverpool's fast brain and funniest commentator. His company is always a pleasure, he really has his moments I would say. But don't we all have our moments ? Women have their moments, too. They call it period though.

We heard someone say that there will be a follow-up in September 2011. It sounded like "Tonic and the fountains" which actually makes no sense to me, but we will see.

I wish I wouldn't always build my own mountains before me.

[tinderella]

Byron, your photos are stunning!
Pete, what can i say? Another poem written for me . Thanks for making such an effort, it was wonderful and the reason I transfixed those young lads was because they had never heard of Leonard so I had the best chat up lines in history.............. when I said to them, 'I ache in the places where I used to play' I had them in the palm of my hands

It's wonderful to think in a small seaside town in Wales... our signatures and a photograph of Leonard adorns the wall. Those Welsh people loved us and said please come back next year

Dave, I am so jealous that Henning got to Anfield.

I hope we have some energy left in us for Barcelona but after this weekend i am quite happy to hand over the entertainment to all the others.

My bruise on my arm looks a bit like the map of Wales today by the way

This is the first time I have ever been called Bernie, it has always been Ber or Bernadine but it's kinda growing on me now

Also can i mention a BIG THANKYOU to my great sister Mambo, She had me laughing morning , noon and night for the whole 4 days. I hope she finds the energy to join the Forum and all the fun we have on here.

Love Tinders. xxx

[Henning]

I wonder why no one mentions the short visit of Suzie Quattro in the bar on Sunday ?

[Diane]

Oh my God, Henning. Fortunately I had not had quite enough whiskey at that time to sing the only song I almost know, which I am learning to play for somebody.

Please delete this alphabetical list (on which I should be last; never mind it's probably your hormones), and replace it with the actual order of reaching the top, which, for convenience, is the reverse of the proper alphabetical one. Dave was last because he chose to start the walk from Bala.

Dave Everett, Ken Forsythe, Christoph Franz, Henning Franz, John Morris, Tim Vincent, Diane Williams, Joe Way

btw so many people have expressed thanks to me for this trip, and just to put it in writing - (i) you are very welcome, it was a pleasure, mostly;-), and (ii) it was a cooperative effort in which everyone played their part, and especially of course Tim plus Margaret, Henning Ken Dave Pete, and also John (both of you), Linda (both of you), Christoph, Judy, Liz, Judith, Joe and Anne, Phil and Jean, Ian and Sally, Bernadine and Marian (Mambo), Sinikka and Paula. We never walked alone did we?

Bernie because I have met Mambo before I didn't realise she wasn't a member here. She is a lovely and very funny person. You two were a double act and you can never have enough Irish people at events.

Now I must do some work. More endless pics of mountainsides tonight.