diction

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
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Geoffrey
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diction

Postby Geoffrey » Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:07 pm

What can I say to people in the chatroom when they start laughing at the way Leonard sings 'perscription'? I hadn't even noticed it before Tim mentioned it. What shall I say if they start going on about it again?
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:23 pm

Poetic license? Pre/pruh - scrip ~ tshun may be proper, but it would lose the sense of the drooling-madman spirit on the lawn. Perhaps, perfect pronunciation is one of the first things departed spirits let go of... as a major, earthly-plane, pain in the tush... and Leonard, trying to give the good doctor his due, pronounced it the same as the doctor may be doing now.

You, no doubt, look forward to hearing their own cover of it, all words perfectly pronounced.

Now ~ Since when are you at a loss for how to respond :wink: ??

~ Lizzy
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Geoffrey
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Postby Geoffrey » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:05 am

Lizzytysh wrote:
>Since when are you at a loss for how to respond??


Well, I have changed. The trouble was that Tim was right; we should be aware that the portion of cod on our plates is sometimes badly filletted. Leonard DID sing "then he wrote himself a perscription". All Tim did was bring to my attention the little fragment of cork floating in the wine. I checked on the internet and saw that several lyric websites even write it as it's sung - so I didn't know how to defend Leonard against Tim. He is a big fan of Dylan, so all I could do was ridicule the way he sings 'scrapegoat' in 'Ballad in Plain D'. It all started because I was talking about the way Springsteen's 'Noo Joisey' accent causes a glutteral stop between the first and second syllable in the pronunciation of 'interesting' - making it sound like 'inneresting'. I said Leonard never talks lazy like that and then Tim said "What about 'perscription' then?" What I need is a good answer if he ever says that to me again.
Tony
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Postby Tony » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:55 am

Tim is obviously very "preceptive" to have noticed "perscription".
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Fljotsdale
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Postby Fljotsdale » Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:35 pm

Imo, (sorry Geoffrey!) I think clarity of diction is way more important than complete accuracy of pronunciation! And I thought, from the title of the thread, that you were going to compliment Cohen on his diction.

Cohen's diction is excellent. You can hear virtually every word he sings, unlike the vast majority of popular (and classical!) singers. So what if he pronounces words in his own way? So do we all - and with a great variety of dialects, too! :P Tell the chatroom to stuff THAT in their pipes and smoke it! :lol:
Only just found this video of LC:
http://ca.youtube.com/user/leonardcohen?ob=4" target="_blank

This one does make me cry.
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tomsakic
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Postby tomsakic » Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:15 pm

Fljotsdale wrote:Cohen's diction is excellent. You can hear virtually every word he sings, unlike the vast majority of popular (and classical!) singers.
Thats' true. I think I commented few times how Cohen is almost the only singer which every word I actually hear and understand. Others such raree artists are actually the ones that learned from his: late Nick Cave, late Tom Waits... Cohen is totally and amazingly articulated singer, and he's unique in that.
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Postby Tony » Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:11 pm

I would not pronounce "oranges" as "ornjs" but that is just me; I know that I do not always pronounce words "correctly". Language is an evolving substance and the written normally follows the spoken. If it remained the same I might be speaking old English - or old French if I belonged to the nobility. Having thought about it then it would be the latter!

Au revoir.
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:39 pm

Different pronunciations will vary by the region where one lives and the individual speaking. To have everything pronounced exactly as spelled by everyone who speaks that particular language would end up rather milk toast for me as a listener. The differences in pronunciation can be very charming.

~ Lizzy
Tchocolatl
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Re: diction

Postby Tchocolatl » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:00 am

Geoffrey wrote:What can I say to people in the chatroom when they start laughing at the way Leonard sings 'perscription'? I hadn't even noticed it before Tim mentioned it. What shall I say if they start going on about it again?
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in?

Geoffrey don't you think that it is a little - euh - weard, hum yes - to do such a fuss about such an error (as it is part of being human on Earth - everybody are doing errors, really, only people who are doing nothing don't make mistakes)? Maybe they can't deal with their own humanity? Be kind with them, they have the right not to pe perfect. 8)
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Fljotsdale
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Re: diction

Postby Fljotsdale » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:46 pm

Tchocolatl wrote:
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in?
VERY good, Tchoco! A great response. 8)
Only just found this video of LC:
http://ca.youtube.com/user/leonardcohen?ob=4" target="_blank

This one does make me cry.
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Fljotsdale
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Postby Fljotsdale » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:54 pm

lizzytysh wrote:Different pronunciations will vary by the region where one lives and the individual speaking. To have everything pronounced exactly as spelled by everyone who speaks that particular language would end up rather milk toast for me as a listener. The differences in pronunciation can be very charming.

~ Lizzy
Yes, I agree. And so long as you can understand what is said, the exact pronunciation of a word is not particularly important. We automatically mentally 'correct' pronunciation to fit with our own particular dialect/accent, anyway. For example, in a post or a letter, a person cannot hear the Birmingham (UK) accent in my written words, so they 'hear' me in their own accent. With the spoken word a person hears the accent but 'decodes' it to tally with their own - so we all understand with ease that (eg) 'ornjs' is oranges, and 'perscription' is prescription.
Only just found this video of LC:
http://ca.youtube.com/user/leonardcohen?ob=4" target="_blank

This one does make me cry.
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Fljotsdale
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Postby Fljotsdale » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:00 pm

Tom Sakic wrote:
Fljotsdale wrote:Cohen's diction is excellent. You can hear virtually every word he sings, unlike the vast majority of popular (and classical!) singers.
Thats' true. I think I commented few times how Cohen is almost the only singer which every word I actually hear and understand. Others such raree artists are actually the ones that learned from his: late Nick Cave, late Tom Waits... Cohen is totally and amazingly articulated singer, and he's unique in that.
It is one of the nicest things about his singing. His voice, though charming and warm as buttered toast, is not the greatest in the world, and he loses the key sometimes, but you can HEAR what he is singing, as well as the feeling in his voice.
Only just found this video of LC:
http://ca.youtube.com/user/leonardcohen?ob=4" target="_blank

This one does make me cry.
Kevin W.M.LastYearsMan
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Postby Kevin W.M.LastYearsMan » Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:41 pm

You stand corrected, Flojts. When I read your next post the voice in my head (one of many) had, in fact, a british accent.

Kevin©
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Fljotsdale
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Postby Fljotsdale » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:40 pm

LOL! :lol: But not MY British accent, Kevin! You probably hear 'received English' such as is still used on the BBC. I have a regional accent. :wink: And not one that is universally liked, either!
Only just found this video of LC:
http://ca.youtube.com/user/leonardcohen?ob=4" target="_blank

This one does make me cry.
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:44 pm

Ahhh.... Well, if it's anything like Paula's, it's one that I love!!

I, on the other hand [contrary to Kevin :wink: ], agree with what you've said; and said well, in fact, Fljots.


~ Lizzy

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