Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

This section is dedicated to the new studio album and the Dublin concert video
LenMaster
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby LenMaster » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:22 am

I just love this misstep. The way his voice sounds at the start of the song... Just amazing. It cuts like a knife and rips your heart out. Together with My oh, my oh, my this is my favorite misstep. A great album.
Steven
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby Steven » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:01 am

Hi,

Like others, I'm questioning the abrupt/jarring shifts between Leonard Cohen's singing and the female
singers on this track. At first listen, my reaction was something like an inaudible: "What the _ _ _ _?" Maybe
it wasn't inaudible. The naturalness of L.C.'s voice, the compelling lyrics and the nearly instaneous mood
setting were quickly cast aside by the intrusion of the different tempo when the female voices cut in.
Thought it a single aberration, but no... I don't like this.

Maybe the change in tempo and mood was done to symbolize that each partner in the ended relationship relates
to it differently or that one of the two people varies in how he or she responds to what happened.

(Curiously, the song lyrics don't contain question marks: http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/popularproblems.html.
Maybe this is a way of suggesting that the questions are more exclamations than questions.)
Monday
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby Monday » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:36 am

While Slow, A Street or Nevermind musically are rather empty you still can listen to the voice and enjoy the lyrics. But this misstep gives me a fright as soon as the first note shows up.
HelenOE
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby HelenOE » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:54 pm

Diane wrote:Did I Ever Love You, with all those pertinent questions, wondering whether it's ever over and whether 'we are still leaning across the old table' reminds me of another question he asked in one of my faves from Book of Longing:
My time is running out
and still
I have not sung
the true song
the great song

[...] why do you lean me here
Lord of my life
lean me at this table
in the middle of the night
wondering
how to be beautiful
I admit, I haven't read "Book of Longing" yet (it just moved way up in the queue) but this quote has completely changed my view of this song. I think it's a song to God, a meditation on the difficulties and quandaries of trying to be in relationship with the Divine. I don't know how the female chorus fits in with Leonard's vocals... maybe he's singing the words of his mouth and they're singing the meditation of his heart (both in the same words), and it's that meditation which takes off and soars. The contrast between the two parts is kind of jarring at first, but for me at least, the chorus is a beautiful earworm.
Tchocolatl
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby Tchocolatl » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:28 pm

Diane wrote:(...)

The lemon trees blossom
The almond trees whither
It’s Spring and it’s Summer
And it’s Winter forever

Hi Tchoc:-) Yes, and this verse in particular sounds like it's about the passing of time, together with the eternal now. (Heightened in meaning since you discovered the delicious wither/whither possibilty in another thread after Codiug noticed it.)
By the way, didn't we meet in another love thread long ago? Was it ever settled?

What thread of love a long time ago? They are all threads of love ;-) Well, for me, I only remember, maybe wrongly, that the last time you wrote me here was in "the Roshi thread", and for some reason you threated (or treated?) me with a "you stubborn piece of shit", or something like that. I still wonder what I may have done that I had never done before to cause such a new reaction from your part toward my activities here.

Well, as I still don't understand what happened I put all the blame on these electronic means of miscommunication.

So. The song does not possess all those question marks. Me nether.

It is settled.

This said, you, Ms. photographer may appreciate the second photo in my first post in this thread. Looks like a Le Caravage.
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
Elizabeelzebubeth
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby Elizabeelzebubeth » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:51 am

I think Jon Pareles is a dingbat. I really like this song. And I think the tempo change is meant as a little joke, relating back to "Slow."
UrPal
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby UrPal » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:07 pm

The call and response form in which the lyric is first presented in a melancholic slow male-sung form then repeated in an upbeat female chorus is a brilliant notion. And they manage to pull it off spectacularly too. It's like placing Harry Nilsson's Without You alongside The Beatles'/Buck Owen's Act Naturally and sewing them together seamlessly into one form. You're sobbing one minute and swinging the next. Anyone who thinks it's a misstep can't dance.
Monday
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby Monday » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:53 pm

Yeah it's really a roller coaster of effects and emotions.
stephencharlton
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby stephencharlton » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:13 pm

I love the song, the bluesy and country feel works well for me.
The album as a whole is getting better every play !
2008 Manchester
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Diane
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby Diane » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:05 am

HelenOE wrote:
Diane wrote:Did I Ever Love You, with all those pertinent questions, wondering whether it's ever over and whether 'we are still leaning across the old table' reminds me of another question he asked in one of my faves from Book of Longing:
My time is running out
and still
I have not sung
the true song
the great song

[...] why do you lean me here
Lord of my life
lean me at this table
in the middle of the night
wondering
how to be beautiful
I admit, I haven't read "Book of Longing" yet (it just moved way up in the queue) but this quote has completely changed my view of this song. I think it's a song to God, a meditation on the difficulties and quandaries of trying to be in relationship with the Divine. I don't know how the female chorus fits in with Leonard's vocals... maybe he's singing the words of his mouth and they're singing the meditation of his heart (both in the same words), and it's that meditation which takes off and soars. The contrast between the two parts is kind of jarring at first, but for me at least, the chorus is a beautiful earworm.
A possible spiritual 'layer' to the song had not specifically occurred to me. No idea why, as this is LC we are talking about! Nice one, Helen.
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Diane
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby Diane » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:18 am

Tchocolatl wrote:
Diane wrote:(...)

The lemon trees blossom
The almond trees whither
It’s Spring and it’s Summer
And it’s Winter forever

Hi Tchoc:-) Yes, and this verse in particular sounds like it's about the passing of time, together with the eternal now. (Heightened in meaning since you discovered the delicious wither/whither possibilty in another thread after Codiug noticed it.)
By the way, didn't we meet in another love thread long ago? Was it ever settled?

What thread of love a long time ago? They are all threads of love ;-) Well, for me, I only remember, maybe wrongly, that the last time you wrote me here was in "the Roshi thread", and for some reason you threated (or treated?) me with a "you stubborn piece of shit", or something like that. I still wonder what I may have done that I had never done before to cause such a new reaction from your part toward my activities here.

Well, as I still don't understand what happened I put all the blame on these electronic means of miscommunication.

So. The song does not possess all those question marks. Me nether.

It is settled.

This said, you, Ms. photographer may appreciate the second photo in my first post in this thread. Looks like a Le Caravage.
Tchoc, you're right, they are all threads of love;-). But this is eclipsed by my sticking pins in you in the Roshi thread?? That doesn't sound like me at all, and upon investigation I see that the offending post was responding not to you, but to a comment Junk had made. However, my post followed one of yours, and you thought my mention of stubborn bags of garbage referred to your post. No, no. Not so! I am so glad I had a chance to clear that up xxx.

None of this is to say you are not stubborn 8) .

I do very much like your Carravagio-like visual depiction of the contrast between the 'male' and 'female' and male and female aspects of this song.
(Thanks also for the intro to Chloe Sainte-Marie - I like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnE8k3wEt7k)
Tchocolatl
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby Tchocolatl » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:05 am

I'm glad that you like it. You had the curiosity to go investigate a little, he? I was surprised to hear just after having posted the picture that she releases a new CD today. She always say that she is a "little singer" with a "thread of a voice", but I like many of her songs and the atmosphere in her voice and style. She signs many poets that would have stayed flat in their books without her, and she sings also in first nations' languages (which would not have been heard so widely around, either). Good choice of a song!

As much as the picture à la manière de Caravage, I enjoy the metaphore of Tom Wait's voice! Which is a good metaphor for the rendition of Leonard Cohen, which I like even better than the metaphore.

Of course. This stubborness...:lol: :razz:

That was not fitting your natural elegance and brilliance, indeed.

To come back to the main subject : It appears that "Did I Ever Love You" is a real ear worm for me.
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
rmorgan
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby rmorgan » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:40 pm

Now I'm finding for me that it's TWO ear-worms. The slow part, and the fast part. Talk about two 'missteps' for the price of one! I'm going to need that walking stick that Leonard sports on the cover! Going to need to shine my shoes, down on my knees I guess (where life begins ...) :) :roll: Lessens the chances of misstep.

But seriously ... ain't this album just the tops?! I'm sooooooo looking forward to turning 80, 21 years from now. I might even take up smoking (cigarettes).
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Diane
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby Diane » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:20 am

rmorgan, I concur:-) It's not bad at all! Helen's characterisation of Did I Ever Love You as an earworm has a lot of recognition:-)
She signs many poets that would have stayed flat in their books without her, and she sings also in first nations' languages


Marvellous, Tchoc. Also, I always enjoy good music/poetry in languages I do not understand (LC's inclusion of Arabic in PP is delicious). Knowing that even a sensitive translation cannot quite get there, amplifies the possibilities. Oh, and as always, I enjoy how your turn of phrase is effortlessly poetic.

I am glad you like LC's voice better than the metaphor of Tom Waits'. I could never take to Tom Waits (apart from Flowers Grave, which has such fine lyrics that his voice cannot spoil it). I will stick with the picture à la manière de Caravage. Merci.
Tchocolatl
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Re: Did I Ever Love You - "major misstep"?!

Postby Tchocolatl » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:05 pm

rmorgan, those worms tickle a lot!

Diane, such an elegant way to express that my posts allow you to explore the depths and the lengths of the term "broken English".

I reassure you : sensitive translations that quite go there, and even further sometimes, do exist. Despite the difficulties that do not allow some others to go very far. Life is such a mosaic. Besides, the action of translating is an exercice of thourough reading, much deeper than the usual one.

It is nice indeed to hear first nations' languages elsewhere than in the remains of the names of their stolen lands (ex. : Massachussets, Nantucket, Saskatchewan, etc.). It feels like if evolution exists, after all. It feels like I'm really going somewhere.

Today google's doodle is a tribute to the Innuit artist Kenojuak Ashevak.

They used this art piece :

Image
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers

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