The New York Event in our memories

The New York Event - before and after!
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:36 am

I don't know whether Lightning's list is comprehensive; however, to view it objectively, it seems clear that, despite their use of whatever consciousness-altering substances, a fair number of people, coming under the label of avant-garde artists who stayed at the Chelsea, were being fairly productive during their non-indulging, or even indulging, times.

~ Janis Joplin
~ Jerry Ragni, co-author of the musical that brought hippiedom to Broadway, Hair
~ Shirley Clarke, avant filmmaker of The Cool World and The Connection which opened the world of the drug addict to the cinema
~ Harry Smith, experimental filmmaker, American folk music anthologist, producer of the Fugs First Album, magus and revered eccentric
~ Robert Mapplethorpe, stunning, homosexual black/white art photographer
~ Francis, poet, madman and beautiful loser par excellence
~ Marianne Faithfull
~ Warhol’s Viva
~ Lennon/Ono’s Virginia Lust
~ Jane Fonda
~ Patti Smith, rocker-poet
~ famous artists you admired [not certain whether this refers to the aforementioned, or to others not included in the list]
~ Leonard Cohen
~ British magician Stanley Amos [not sure whether he stayed there, exhibited there, or exhibited nearby and visited there]
~ poet Gregory Corso
~ poet Allen Ginsberg
~ folk singer Phil Ochs
~ pop artist Andy Warhol
~ dazzling chanteuse/model Nico
~ punk musician Sid Vicious
~ his tragic girlfriend Nancy Spungen
~ author Mason Hoffenberg
~ poet Dylan Thomas
~ radical designer Charles James
~ poet/art collector Isabella Gardiner
~ Thomas Wolfe

This list still comes with all, due respect for your grandfather and the manner of his death, Midnight.

~ Elizabeth
LaurieAK
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Postby LaurieAK » Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:07 am

A personal opinion:

I don't think that drug use is ever the impetus to someone suddenly becoming 'talented' and/or 'creative.' I think it is just the opposite. INSPITE of the drug use, their particular talent survived. Or didn't, whatever the case maybe.

It was a societal thing. A generational thing. It (drugs) was not an answer to a problem or a solution to societies ills. It was self indulgent and good for a laugh, till the morning, or till you didn't ever wake up.

Young, talented (and untalented) people used because it was the thing to do. In hindsight, very status quo and conformist, for the "do yer own thing" mantra generation.

I hope that 'list' is not presented as some sort of Exhibit A to the glamorization of drug use, or the grand effects and results it achieves...even in the context of the times, i think that is BS.

Sincerely, Laurie
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:43 am

Hi Laurie ~

I would have learned little in the course of my life were that list presented as an "Exhibit A to the glamorization of drug use, or the grand effects and results it achieves..."

I'm uncertain as to how it could possibly have been construed as such, with comments such as [italics mine inserted here, for emphasis], "to view it objectively, it seems clear that, despite their use of whatever consciousness-altering substances, a fair number of people, coming under the label of avant-garde artists who stayed at the Chelsea, were being fairly productive during their non-indulging, or even indulging, times." Perhaps, you went straight to the list and noted the word "drugs" somewhere in the posting[s], and drew a possible [though not possible, in the context of the posting of mine that contained the list]. Jumping to that kind of conclusion doesn't really seem 'like you,' so I'm :? on how that seems to have occurred. I couldn't even say who in that list [maybe all/maybe not all] necessarily used drugs ~ however, they were certainly creative people, given the fruits of their labours.

The list was presented as a direct response to two, brief postings made by Midnight regarding the presumed characteristics and behaviour of those who gathered at the Chelsea.

It's great to see you here.

Sincerely,
Lizzy
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Henning
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Postby Henning » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:53 am

It's gone three months now and time for me to say how much I liked Julie Christensen's version of "A singer must die" ...... and how much I liked the opening slide show .... and I am afraid .... "The fisher must die" as well
Anne
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Postby Anne » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:33 am

Im the past two months have often thought of Julie Christensen singing "A singer must die" and of Perla's version of "Coming back to you". Those were real standout highlights for me in a show with no low lights!

We heard some wonderful music in NYC. I enjoyed so many of the performances.
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liverpoolken
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Postby liverpoolken » Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:34 pm

I notice that amongst all those illustrious names of residents that lizzytish gave us there is one glaring omission.
Bob Dylan.
Bob lived on and off between 1964 and 1966 in the hotel.
He married his first wife Sara at the Chelsea, his first child Jesse was born there and he wrote Sad Eyed Lady Of The Lowlands there.



Ta ken
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:37 am

Excellent, Liverpoolken :D 8) ! Thank you so much for that information! I, of course, had no idea of it; nor did I have any idea of the lengthy list that Lightning originally provided [and which I re-created here ~ in list format]. That's wonderful information, and adds even more texture to a great, historical place for those who love music, literature, and the arts.

Thank you.

~ Lizzy
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Kush
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Postby Kush » Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:54 pm

The list of people - literary and musical - and their association with Chelsea of the 1960s remind of the saying "Do great men make history or does history make great men?"

The answer is probably blowing in the wind.
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:01 pm

Maybe that was one of the questions being pondered when the song was written, eh :wink: !?!
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liverpoolken
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Postby liverpoolken » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:14 pm

Lizzytish

A couple more literary connections.

I know for certain that William Burroughs wrote The Naked Lunch at the Chelsea and Arthur Clarke wrote 2001 whilst staying there.
Tom Wolfe said recently in an interview that he wrote one of his books whilst 'holed up' in the Chelsea.
I have a feeling he was refering to Look Homeward Angel.
I certainly hope it was Look Homeward Angel. Eugene Gant the main character is one of my all time fictional heroes.
If you haven't read this book and feel you are still young of heart, which I'm sure you are, give yourself a treat and rush to the bookshop tomorrow.
Think Catcher In The Rye times ten.

Ta Ken
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:37 pm

Now those are some endorsements! The "still young of heart" [and to that I say, "Yes"] plus "Catcher In The Rye times ten"! I remember "Catcher In The Rye" from yeeeears ago ~ and loved it then! Thanks for the recommendation! Even for those who might be tempted to question the Chelsea's respectability, you're certainly 'legitimizing' it, one right after the other!

Ta Lizzy [Thanks, Paula :wink: :lol: !]
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Paula
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Postby Paula » Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:08 am

Ta Lizzie

Everytime I see Catcher in the Rye mentioned I think of John Lennon's killer Mark Chapman. He sat down to read it after he murdered John.

Good book evil man
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:28 am

Yes, you're right on that, Paula. A fact that I had managed to detach from the horrific and tragic event of John Lennon's death. Wasn't Chapman presumed to have already read, or been in the course of reading it, as well? Even to the extent that some postulated his having been influenced by it? You're right......good book evil man.
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liverpoolken
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Postby liverpoolken » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:32 am

How strange.
I was recently searching for images of John Lennon for some artwork I was doing for a bootleg recording of John's acoustic home recordings when I came across a photo taken of John signing what looks like an old vinyl album for Chapman outside the Dakota building.
I'm still not sure exactly when the photo was taken.
I have heard it was taken earlier on in the evening of the shooting, and have also heard it was taken just seconds before the event.

I'm sure fans of John are familiar with the photo, however I have to say that the whole experience of just finding this photo in such a casual way left me absolutely numb.

Despite being a Liverpudlian I've never much of a Beatles fan except for George, needless to say I still had to look elsewhere for a suitable image.

2004 New York Leonard Cohen Event - Chelsea Hotel -Tom Wolfe - Eugene Gant - Catcher In The Rye - the murder of John Lennon- who would have thought of such connections.

It's rum old world.

Ta Ken
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Paula
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Postby Paula » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:41 am

Lizzie they equated Mark Chapman's actions to that of the book Manucian Man. He mirrored John's actions before killing him he married a Japanese girl and signed out at work on his last day as John Lennon. It was mooted the FBI had a hand in his murder. I was devastated when he was killed.

Ken if you let me have your address (PM) I will photocopy the Paper I kept it was either the Evening Standard or the Daily Mirror which reported the murder it has the photo you mentioned on the front page. (if you are interested). Mark Chapman got an autograph off John on the day he died he got it a few hours before he killed him and then waited for him to return.

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