Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Leonard Cohen's previous album (January 2012)
maroo
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby maroo » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:48 pm

Goldin wrote:
chaplainmom wrote:Has anyone read the piece in Mojo magazine that Sylvie Simmons wrote about Leonard? She states that "Darkness appears to be about Cunnilingus."
plakor wrote:Dang. I thought "Banjo" was about oral sex.
rmorgan wrote:Show Me the Place is about oral sex. Among other things.
Just to summarize.
Leonard Cohen is all about oral sex.
Seems that there are lot of oral sex in his double meaning!

Anyhow, I'll study more deeply.

Cheers
Piero
Dublin 14/15th September 2012
Steven
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby Steven » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:45 am

Hi,

I haven't read the article. Never have I thought that this song in any way is referring to oral sex. I
doubt that anyone can convince me that it is.
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby Vicomte » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:51 am

I won't try then but the clues are all there, as David Frost once used to say....... :lol:
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2017 and fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
Neil from The Young Ones
Steven
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby Steven » Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:00 am

Hi,

This discussion reminded me of a song that might be about the practice. It's not a Leonard Cohen
song, but what the heck, here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln7_1TsVyvs. An earlier
recording of the same song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVJZKb9SCLA. Enjoy. :)
Cate
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby Cate » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:06 am

Suddenly Steven that I like it Like that song doesn't seem as innocent as I thought.

I haven't yet read the Simmons article (I'll try to find it) but it just doesn't strike me that way

If I try to think of it like that,
'I caught the darkness, drinking from your cup' ... sounds like some kind of venereal disease.
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comehealing
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby comehealing » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:02 pm

Ah, in the world of 50 Shades of Grey mass hysteria, it would appear that everything
needs to be sexed up ;) Still, excellent publicity for forthcoming biography methinks.

I have always thought that Leonard's songs are like onions; they have many layers and
multiple meanings. That is the ineffable beauty. Sex, longing, desire, faith, connection,
failure,redemption - all wrapped up in a mystical sheen. Marvellous.

An interesting interpretation nonetheless.
Alexis
"Who, being loved, is poor?"
(Oscar Wilde)
"That love is all there is" (Emily Dickinson)
"A miracle, just take a look around: The inescapable earth" (Wislawa Szymborska)
Vicomte
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby Vicomte » Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:51 pm

I do get the feeling, comehealing, that LC himself with his well known love of literary works will not be bothered with this 50 wotsits, rather preferring his own long and personal history of sexual events, some of them put to words and even sung about ;-)
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2017 and fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
Neil from The Young Ones
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comehealing
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby comehealing » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:06 pm

Ha, the artistic and literary merit of LC's work is assured for posterity. The magic of his oeuvre will never cease.
As the narrator of his seminal book, Beautiful Losers, avers:

"Magic never weakened. Magic never hid. Magic always ruled"
Alexis
"Who, being loved, is poor?"
(Oscar Wilde)
"That love is all there is" (Emily Dickinson)
"A miracle, just take a look around: The inescapable earth" (Wislawa Szymborska)
IMM
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby IMM » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:26 pm

comehealing wrote:I have always thought that Leonard's songs are like onions; they have many layers and
multiple meanings. That is the ineffable beauty. Sex, longing, desire, faith, connection,
failure,redemption - all wrapped up in a mystical sheen. Marvellous.
Someone once wondered about the value of words in a Kodachrome world, where a "picture was worth a thousand words".
It leads to an interesting thought about how many images (pictures) could exist in a line of poetry (song).
Is it possible to takes several 'images', which were related in some way, sum them up with a line or two - giving alternate and layered meanings?

It might be a slow thing to write though. :shock:
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby cohenadmirer » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:56 pm

It's odd that i've only just noticed this thread !
I think that ardent leonard cohen fans connect with his lyrics and music at a very personal and idiosynchartic level. That's why we can be so moved .
They mean something unique to each person , and the meaning can of course change as they resonate with what happens in our lives
In psychological terms there is a lot of countertransference going on !
~Personally i have never heard anything ' sexual ' in Darkness , though i have in many other songs ! Some to me have deeply erotic layers . That includes, of course, ' hallelujah ' though the more sexually evocative lines are often left out of many of the bland ,insipid cover versions!
Leonard's work resonates
Brighton 1979; Dublin , Manchester june 2008; glasgow, manchester Nov 2008; Liverpool july 2009 ; Barcelona Sept 2009 ;marseille, lille september2010: Ghent August 2012;Barcelona October 2012;Montreal x2 November 2012: 2013; Saint John NB April 2013; Brussels June 2013;Manchester August 2013; Leeds , Birmingham September 2013; Amsterdam September 2013
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby Steven » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:23 am

Hi cohenadmirer,

Glad you found the thread. I'm with you on your comments on this (countertransference gives me some pause... projection, part of the dynamic of that process wouldn't). "Hallelujah," in terms of sexually suggestive lyrics, allows for those suggestions to be side by side with the possibility of those same lyrics being of spiritual content. When I hear them, a spiritual take on them usually predominates. The "moving in" somebody I usually associate with "a moving in the spirit," the term that Christian charismatic folks use to refer to when God animates a person. On rarer occasions, better than average sexual union comes to mind... The song doesn't dictate but gives permission for people to hear things as they will. The permissiveness is rich and part of the artfulness of "Hallelujah" and many Leonard Cohen songs. With "Darkness," I don't hear any kind of sexuality, but an incoporation of a bible-like symbolic use of "cup".... a classic blues song, without any of the common double entendres of the genre. The bible has references to a cup of trembling and the cup (crucifixion) that Jesus prayed to be taken from him. In "Darkness," the cup seems to me to clearly hold a dose of toxic affect of being with a particular person. Everyone has drunk from those kinds of cups.
Last edited by Steven on Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Vicomte
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby Vicomte » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:17 am

I think you are fully entitled to your view Steven though drinking from your cup has long had another meaning, who knows but I can't recall too many double entendres from yer man ? ;-)
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2017 and fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
Neil from The Young Ones
Steven
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:32 am

Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby Steven » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:39 am

Hi Vicomte,

Drinking from the cup (as in the sexual activity) can result in various manner of responses, but a "darkness" as in the
bleak way it (darkness) is expressed in the song? :) Can't recall any double entendres from L.C. off-hand. Let's turn that
question over to everyone. Double entendres in Leonard Cohen songs?
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Sanverp
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Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby Sanverp » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:34 pm

I'm reading the song as the 'darkness' is the 'temptation'!

Maybe I'm the only one seeing the poem like this, but please forgive me my simplicity.


Kind regards,
Sanverp
Kind Regards,
Peter
Steven
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Re: Sylvie Simmon s thinks "Darkness" is about oral sex...

Postby Steven » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:00 pm

Hi Sanverp,

No, you aren't the only one seeing "temptation" in the song, or at least the possibility of it being there. Temptation can be a gateway drug to darkness. It could have rendered the first-person character in the song vulnerable to a dark side of the relationship. Were I to take the position that the song is about sex, this would probably be at the heart of it.

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