Leonard Cohen and gender

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Rachel
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Leonard Cohen and gender

Post by Rachel »

First off, I promise not to get too gender-warriorlike in this thread. Do you think there is any difference in the way men and women relate to LC's lyrics? I recently met an LC fan who thinks there is definitely a difference: that Leonard expresses emotions in a way that men find difficult. I beg to differ!

By the way, if you have made it here, hello, you know who you are, but I'll let you introduce yourself!
Tony
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Post by Tony »

Most men do not like to discuss their emotions, they see doing so as a sign of weakness. They like to think that they are logical and pragmatic. Anything which is vague and abstract in their lives and which cannot be resolved by logic or action is taboo to a man.

That should generate a few comments but I have said enough.
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Rachel
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Post by Rachel »

Hi Tony,
I'm guessing you are a man! I am not, and also like to think I am logical and pragmatic. In fact, these things are of great importance to me - I have been accused of being quite macho in fact.
Not that I'm contradicting you.
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Makera
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Post by Makera »

Rachel~
Very interesting and relevant question you have posed. The challenge has always been to overcome, and balance, our biological 'wiring'. Male and female brains are 'wired' differently, to begin with, then societal conditioning tends to reinforce it (generally speaking).
As Tony accurately and succinctly characterized, men do have a harder time, due to their natural and traditional cultural roles. It would seem to be up to us - as the intuitive, adaptable, 'weaker' sex - to help them meet us in the middle. (That's why the feminine was originally described as 'helpmeet')
We are meant to complement each other - each with qualities expressed outwardly in one and inwardly in the other. Yin Yang.

~Makera
Lostlyric
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Post by Lostlyric »

Hello All:

I am in complete agreement with you Rachel, I am a guy and I relate to Leonard's music and lyrics with a similar intensity as the one that is expressed in the songs and lyrics themselves. For this reason I cannot stereotype the male or female perspective and say that each gender has a particular way of relating to Leonard's music. I don't think it is quite as simple as that. It is more an individual thing to my mind....and I am using my own experience and subjective emotions which draw me to Leonard's work. In fact any man who truly appreciates Leonard's music is already a somewhat atypical male to my mind.

Take care,

Biraj
"So if you're sitting all alone and hear a-knocking at your door and the air is full of promises, well buddy, you've been warned!!!"

Nick Cave on love
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Rachel
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Post by Rachel »

Hello everyone,
Thanks for your responses! I do agree that male Leonard Cohen fans tend to be rather atypical - female ones too :wink: .
I feel that, when listening to Cohen's songs, most of the time I identify completely with the 'voice' - the protagonist, as if there were in fact no difference between he and I. When I read his books, I feel like a woman reading a book written by a man, and do not identify in the same way. I do value them as literature, but perhaps take more critical distance.
Do other women feel the same way?
And do men relate to his novels differently too?
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Paula
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Post by Paula »

I think you can get women with a masculine brain and vice versa. e.g Margaret Thatcher. I think Leonard has a feminine brain. That is not effeminate but his thought process veers more towards what is accepted as feminine. Obviously that is just my opinion. The verbal part of a woman's brain is more developed than a mans as are their vocal skills :lol:
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Rachel
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Post by Rachel »

I agree with you Paula, broadly speaking. Female does not equal feminine, ditto male, although they are culturally enscribed as such - as Makera pointed out.
To be honest, I'm sceptical of the whole masculine/feminine binary. If the people who invented it had been proper biologists they'd never have thought of it. Just look at black widow spiders and seahorses!
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