A sad day for Leonard

USA and Canada (April 1 - June 4, 2009). Special concert for fans in NYC (February 19). Concert reports, set lists, photos, media coverage, multimedia links, recollections...

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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby PIPKINRAH on Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:30 am

I'm responding to this thread because it's the one that most accurately reflects, to a degree, my views. I have been a Leonard Cohen fan since his very first album and had the opportunity to see him in concert and I attended the New York LC Event. While I don't think Mr. Cohen is directly involved in this ticket fiasco I think that his management and by extension Mr. Cohen bear some responsibility. The artist, his management and the the theater venue negotiate the terms of the contract; ticket prices, etc. I did not attempt to buy tickets for his New York, Northeast concerts because of what I considered the truly outrageous prices when perusing the venue websites and the ripoffs such as Ticketmaster. As much as people may like Mr. Cohen and his music I really don't understand people paying anywhere from $200 to $900 or more for 3 hours entertainment. Having seen him in concert I can appreciate the visceral excitement of his performances. Additionally I think the VIP ticket pricing can only be described as outrageous and obscene. As others have noted it seems to have become normal for artists and their management to charge and unfortunately for people to pay these prices. From reading the blogs here it's obvious the prices of these tickets will be actually be higher due to credit card interest fees. As I have said I admire Mr. Cohen and will continue to buy his CDs. Have said this I also look forward to acquiring his Live in London DVD when it's released in April. I only hope that he and his management have learned a lesson from what has happened.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby martbook on Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:46 am

Supply and demand in action. The basic tenet of capitalism applied. Remember this next time you vote.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby da2008 on Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:14 am

What's that "ticket fiasco" everybody's referring to?

If people don't want to pay $200 for "three hours of entertainment", maybe they could pay $70? or not pay at all? It's not like anybody's holding a gun to your head. You go or you don't go - it's your choice. If you don't think it's worth it I'd rather you weren't there in the first place, to be honest.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby pizmo on Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:37 am

Pipkinrah, I agree to everything you have said but for the credit card assumption. Crass indeed.

To those complaining about the whining, why click on this thread? This is obviously a thread for folks mad as hell at ticket practices, particularly after learning that some of the nefarious actions were being perpetrated by the artist or his/her management company. Defend the music if you like, defend the persona if you care, but why defend being screwed?
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby da2008 on Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:44 am

pizmo wrote: This is obviously a thread for folks mad as hell at ticket practices, particularly after learning that some of the nefarious actions were being perpetrated by the artist or his/her management company.


where did you learn that?

pizmo wrote: why defend being screwed?


i'm not being screwed, thank you very much.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby Iconoclastic_Bitch on Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:45 am

leonardmtl wrote:Would our opinions change if it were transparent that Leonard benefited from higher ticket prices?
Would we begrudge him the replenishment of his retirement fund?


Great points. I'm really happy to know that this tour is going to replenish LC's retirement fund. And I second the note about Box of Rain being a great newbie. I'm very new here, and she's taken the time to really make me feel welcome. Love her!
Leonard Cohen is my soulmate.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby HarryMann on Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:47 am

da2008 wrote:If people don't want to pay $200 for "three hours of entertainment", maybe they could pay $70? or not pay at all? It's not like anybody's holding a gun to your head. You go or you don't go - it's your choice. If you don't think it's worth it I'd rather you weren't there in the first place, to be honest.


Missing the point there a bit :roll:

It's not exactly what a ticket costs to see a gig that is at issue... it is the following:

a) Your choice of location/price compromise is not there when you go to get it 'as advertised' - despite not actually having been sold elswehere
b) Gross misinformation, deceit and hence confusion about how to obtain a ticket and exactly how much it will cost i.e. jerking people around!
c) Why put a face-value on a ticket at all, when in a huge % of cases it will 'never' be sold to end-user at that price?

The fact of the matter is, the promoters are now the scalpers, effectively a mafia element has come into popular promotions, with no regard for the public at all..


And if all you espousing the mantra - 'let free market conditions reign supreme' are to be honest:

a) Put the proper price on the ticket or none at all
b) Consider what that mantra has achieved recently in the world of finance and banking

These practices cannot continue un-challenged or un-checked, nor will self-regulation effect a cure, self-regulation has failed miserably in almost every sphere it has been adopted. The latest in investment, insurance and (plain old simple) banking being an apocalyptic and abysmal failure!!!
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby da2008 on Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:08 am

after first paragraph: tl dr

Just FYI, I've never paid over face value in my life. I'm always ready when tickets go on sale. Don't misread passwords, don't show up three minutes too late, don't bitch and moan. The people here put an amazing pre-sale together that you've managed to mess up. Anyway, this is now apparently the land of bitter and/or ungrateful. I'll be back when the tour start, for now you can talk amongst yourselves.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby ladydi on Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:39 am

Hi da2008,

I have to agree with you. In the past year I've purchased 7 tickets to various Leonard Cohen concerts and each time there has been no problem. I have the password. I'm signed into Ticketmaster (not my favorite site) and I get the tickets. It may take a few cycles on Ticketmaster but there they are. For one concert the seats were not the best but they also sold out within 20 minutes and I just felt thankful to have the tickets! My one major problem with Ticketmaster was over a year ago for Robert Plant/Alison Krauss tickets....within 5 minutes of being open for sale I was offered limited view seats in upper balcony at $500/seat. Of course I declined, and then a few months later my friend happened upon a concert in Golden Gate park in San Francisco and was able to watch virtually their entire show in the open air....for free.

That's life.... ;-)

All the best,
Diana
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby da2008 on Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:42 am

THANK YOU!!!!
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby honeyrose on Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:51 am

When Bruce Springsteen had the row with Ticketmaster, about his fans being scalped by concert tickets being shunted over to TicketsNow before general sale, he made it clear he had no part in creaming off any extra revenue from fans and expected the tickets to his concerts to be sold on Ticketmaster first, with only the normal TM commissions applying. TM then refunded over 2000 people who had been scalped and said this sort of thing would not happen again without the prior approval of the artist.

Not everyone shares Bruce's altruism. A sold out tour will always attract the scalpers. If people are willing to pay more than face value for the tickets, you could ask, why shouldn't the artist benefit directly? Some stars do and are open about taking their share of the secondary market - like Madonna. Others are less than open about their actions, like Bon Jovi who take their cut of the secondary market but then look the other way and let the agents and promoters take the flak when fans protest. In some cases some of the tickets coming direct onto the secondary market are from the star's management via third parties to conceal their origin. (This also happened historically with Wimbledon when stars like Boris Becker put out their complementary allocation to scalpers).

In the case of Michael Jackson the promoter AEG is openly reselling some of its tickets for his London concerts on the secondary market. What would be interesting would be to know how much percentage Michael Jackson himself gets from this.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby HarryMann on Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:29 am

within 5 minutes of being open for sale I was offered limited view seats in upper balcony at $500/seat.


There ya go da, it does happen

and HoneyRoses next post also confirms it.

You cannot blame it all on customer ineptitude, whatever your own experiences...

They play so many 'games' that we even have disagreement here, exactly what they want, lack of certainty about anything, so as soon as they sense the slightest 'gold rush' for tickets, back to their tricks they go, that you deny they play, or for some strange reason feel are justified :o

Here's an example of what you are proposing (and would probably scream like hell if it happened..)

You want something on eBay and it has a Buy It Now price... you decide to nab it at the BIN price rather than risk the auction process or another nabbing it earlier
The seller then emails you, saying, sorry, I had 100 Private mails showing huge interest, but although you went for BIN first - I'm NOT going to sell it to you, because 'I think' there's a good few out there who will buy it a higher BIN price when I tout it up there again...


Against eBay rules, yes, and what we're saying is so should this same practice of offering, then (artificially) withdrawing said sale, like teasing a child, but plain and simple GREED! Setup your tour and set your price... if it does well, increase the price for the next one.
Even set a block of good tickets at an extortionate price, but with clarity... (and maybe have to sell them cheap like all traders when things aren't moving), not this duplicitous nonsense.

This is what business is about - a fair game, set your bottom line, your profit margin and take a small risk, it's wanting guaranteed almost unlimited profits at any cost to anyone that have got us into this worldwide pickle - see the parallel :roll:

It's a recent thing, suppose you can justify that as 'the way of the world' - well, a nasty one for sure, wasting enormous time, emotional energy and not to say hard earned cash from those who perhaps can ill afford it.
Last edited by HarryMann on Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby mnkyface on Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:54 am

With a few exceptions, I'll bet a lot of those quick-to-blame-Leonard are not big fans, but want to see him because he is a legend. Much like I saw The Rolling Stones a few years back- I'm not a big fan- I probably know a half dozen of their songs- but I wanted to be able to "say" I had seen the Stones. And I loved the show. I think there are a number of people at these LC shows (or, there will be at the upcoming US shows) who want to "take in" an LC concert, because it's presumably their last chance, because they've heard he's cool/infuential, etc.

This is not to say that a true fan who knows LC (and his inherent goodness :) ) can't/won't be angry at high prices and Ticketmaster (or Leonard/AEG if that's who turns out be at fault!) Heck, even I was mad about the VIP price I "had" to pay (I've already been in a huge debacle with someone on another thread who was defending the VIP sales.) But like honeyrose said here: A sold out tour will always attract the scalpers. If people are willing to pay more than face value for the tickets, you could ask, why shouldn't the artist benefit directly?
That's a VERY good point.

On the Michael Jackson issue I just have to laugh. From what I have read, his financial situtaion is dire too, which is just baffling. LC having his 9 million (?) retirement fund stolen is one thing - but wasn't MJ one of the richest men in the world at one time?? I guess squandering his money on a personal amusement park and plastic surgery wasn't a good idea. lol
Last edited by mnkyface on Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby HarryMann on Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:08 am

I don't see that many here blaming LC explicitly...

But I do see quite a few on many separate threads here bewildered, frustrated and even angry, more at the freedom these outfits have to play 'an easy game', rather than run a business in any meaningfully ethical way !
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Postby jarkko on Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:21 am

Marie and I have discussed the ticket issue with Leonard's manager Robert Kory, and
have posted comments at viewtopic.php?f=32&t=14031
Everybody interested in facts instead of false rumors should read it!
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