Leonard is bigger than money

News about Leonard Cohen and his work, press, radio & TV programs etc.
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:27 pm

Bah.... Bee. I don't care about my game being of no interest, if the cannibals prefer to heat people than to think about it. It is a free world. I guess that if G_d gives the free will to human beings, it is because you can not Love nor Create without freedom. As for Hitler, I did "worst" than to read this article, I read some passages of "Mein Kampf". In it, he said that at some point, he began "to hate them" (the Jews). For me, this is the explanation. I mean whatever the background is we can chose to not hate. Fight but do not hate. This Asian philosophy of combat are interesting in this matter : respect your ennemy.

Boss... missionary dearest, you are putting yourself in hot water in my eyes, 'cause the one who wants to change the world just has to begin to change one self. Which is more difficult than to change to world. I know. You don't answer my question, you told me what to write to you or don't write to you. You may be not even read my posts. So it seems to me that you are a little bit control freak in your lack of confidence into other : people all have heart in their chest that could lead them in their own personal ways, and so your lecture this morning, seems to me flat and dry, not interesting in comparaison.

Bee, to come back to you I hope you are going well with your friend's will.

Hum... count on me to take another sparkling glass of wine until the very end of the party. Take care.
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Postby bee » Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:00 pm

Bossman- it is said, that for some people it would be better, if they have not learned to read at all. It confuses them too much.
bee
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Postby bee » Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:05 pm

Tchoco- thank you for thinking about me and my friend, I did what she wanted me to do, she is happy about it, the rest is in God's hands.
bee
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Dem
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Postby Dem » Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:09 pm

Bee wrote
You were born at the warm Adriatic sea
Oh no Bee, pleeease…...

don’t place me in Adriatic making me thus
a target for Bin Laden’s guys

I was born in the warm waters of the Aegean sea
and there is where I intent to stay :)

Dem
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Postby bee » Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:05 am

Sorry, Dem, I thought I've made a mistake, thanks for correcting me- Aegean sounds far better! :oops:
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tomsakic
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Postby tomsakic » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:43 am

Dem wrote:don’t place me in Adriatic making me thus
a target for Bin Laden’s guys
I was born at the warm Adriatic Sea - why it's bin laden's target? I hope they don't read this forum: Adriatic is packed with half million of tourists and some guy from EU leadership (name is Bild I think) said the day before yesterday that Croatia is safest country in Mediterranian. It seemed like he's actually calling bin laden to do something :?

I will not read your preference to the Aegean Sea as being offensive, Bee :wink: But it is better cold, chilly; when outside is 35-40 Celsisus, the Adriatic is best at 22-25 :P .
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Postby bee » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:54 am

I guess I cant say anything right these days-as Tchoco says-turn to the right-I'm cooked, turn to the left - I'm boiled. :cry:
I hope and pray we all stay safe where ever we are.
Let me share with you some great thoughts from Ernst Cassirer's book on Nicholas Cusanus- De visione Dei-
The soul says to God: "Whoever does not possess you, cannot see you. No one grasps you to whom you have not given yourself. But how can I possess you, how can my word reach you, who are the unattainable? How can I entreat you? Is there anything more absurd than that you should give yourself to me, when you are all in all? And how could you give yourself to me, without at the same time giving me heaven, earth, and all that it within them?" And the answer the soul receives from God dismisses these doubts. "Be you yours, and I shall be yours." Man's freedom allows him to want or not to want himself-and only if he autonomously chooses the former will God be given to him. The choice, the final decision, rests with man".
bee
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Boss
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Postby Boss » Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:35 am

I spent years competing with my siblings for Dad's love. He walked out on the family a few times, the longest before he finally left for good, was for 8 or 9 months - I was 6. He moved in with an Israeli woman. My foundations were shaken. I missed him writing poetry in bed on the weekends. I missed him coming home to our bourgeois house every week night. I MISUNDERSTOOD THE LACK OF TEAM LEADERSHIP FROM MUM AND DAD. Everything was unreal, shaky, insecure. I looked to my older brothers and sister for guidance. They started smoking and drinking. It was chaos. My father had brought these 6 kids into the world and now left it for Mum to sort out. My mother took me to the snow for a weekend with my aunt and uncle and their kids. It hurt to see this family in union. Driving home I started to sob in Mum's arms. I wanted my Daddy. He had been looking after my siblings. When we got home I cried in his lap. He said he would come home.

In 1976 a brother had a breakdown. He was 12. It required a year off school and a long holiday. On Pesach night 1977 my sister was killed with her boyfriend in a car accident. He was drunk. In early 1979 my youngest brother had 2 cysts removed from his right leg. While not malignant, they caused a scare. He had neurofibromatosis (and would die of it in 2001). After all of this drama, my mother and father still divorced in 1980. He left in late '79. I remember the day in my mind but I still don't feel the PAIN of him leaving. I didn't cry - I had built up sufficient defences to tackle pain. Just block it off. Ward it off. It seems easier just to walk away and not FEEL it. I want to be angry, I want to scream but I still haven't found the right forum in which to do it. When my father left I was 11. I had an entire adolescence to battle through without him 'close by'. It was hard being one of the youngest - you're open to bullying. I oftentimes needed his support. Still I didn't blame him for not being there - that would not be 'right'.

The next 19 years I spent trying to capture his attention. "Do you think this is a good poem? Story? Idea?" He didn't (largely because of his parenting) instigate the loving - he was more concerned with his new wife and publishing his books. Intelligence is what mattered to Dad, courage and pain were secondary. And I wasted so much energy, so much hope on something that would never materialise. And now he is dead. I don't think he loved and accepted me for me - I had to change, had to be someone else. Lie. Earn my stripes.

I truly thank G-d for my mother. It was her unconditional love and fight for the well-being of her kids which sustained me; in many ways, even to today. If I needed proof that parents can love, I need look no further than her. And be sure for such a one to fall in love with my father, he couldn't have been all bad. Nothing is total. I remember our close loving moments too, but it's this distance that he placed between us I shall endeavour to MOURN fully.

Regards Boss
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:52 pm

Dear Boss ~

I felt that as you would refer to people and their childhood pain that you were including yourself in that. Your own story of childhood is moving and very easily understood as traumatic and difficult for a child to endure without the support of both parents, the absence of one being part of the trauma. I'm sorry you never resolved the issues with your father. As you know, it's so much harder to do it once they're gone and beyond direct confrontation. It can still be done, but not so easily. I'm glad your mother provided you with the sustaining love and support you needed. It would have helped had your father met you as an adult on the ground and terms that he seemed to value so highly, when you were a child. I'm sorry he didn't. Have you sought any form of counseling during any of this, or just tried to handle it on your own, and through the love your Mum has given you? Yes, the "Team Leadership" should be a basic principle of childhood that children can rely on; it's sad that it isn't. I wish you the best, Boss.

~ Lizzy
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Boss
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Postby Boss » Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:39 am

Thanks Lizzy, I wish the best for you too. Yes I've sought counselling.

There is a reason I bring up childhood trauma and what damage it does. And it does relate to a certain Mr. Cohen and his money. It relates to everyone and their money. If one is shown and allowed to express inner conviction, inner peace they will mature and evolve into loving beings. The canopy that is money will have little effect on their lives. They'll be free with the breeze, at one with a flower. They'll 'know', they'll 'be'.

This is one reason why I started this thread. It may be presumptuous of me but I have believed for a long time that Leonard Cohen had a loving upbringing (although he lost his dad when he was young). His work bears this out. The inner freedom to question the very essence of existence, to question G-d, to have the discipline to follow the Zen path. All of this would not be possible if Leonard Cohen was brutalised as a kid. You need some figure to fall back on. To reassure you as you're growing. In Leonard's latest album 'Dear Heather' he pays tribute to his mentors. Everyone needs someone to lean on.

Thus, Leonard Cohen really could not be obsessed by money. Because he found love as a youngster, he has the inner freedom to dream, to discover, to unveil, unravel. And I think he knows it's not money that makes a life - it is Love. It's "the only engine of survival".

Boss
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:08 am

I like the way you tied all those factors together, Boss.
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:18 am

Wonderful, Bee. She is lucky to have a friend like you in these moments (I know it was already said, but it is so true).

Boss, this is deep and touching story of your relationship with your father.
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Tri-me
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Postby Tri-me » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:49 pm

Hi Boss Wow you shared some intimate details of your life. I have a crying Buddha on my meditation alter. The people who experience pain and suffering and have not become hardened by it I feel have open broken hearts. From what I have learnt these people are very sensitive to others and their surroundings. This is not a person who starts to cry at the drop of a leaf in autumn, they are more sensitive to the suffering of others. After the tsunami we had a talk at the center. people were talking about watching the newd etc. It amazed me that they were able to in the first place..I was in tears watching people crying for their loved ones and could not bear to watch. During the war when people were cheering after the Americans bombed a jeep I could not help but acknowledge that people had just been killed. What am I gettin at here, there is a benefit to having experienced pain and suffering it can make a person more compassionate. I have an idea for a Buddha who is smiling with a tear coming down his face I don't remember if someone told me of this or if I just freamed it up. I supplicate White Tara who was born from a tear. Yep money causes more suffering in the world than it s worth
Cheers & DLight
Tri-me (tree-mite) Sheldrön
"Doorhinge rhymes with orange" Leonard Cohen
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Tri-me
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Postby Tri-me » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:31 pm

There is a song called New Toy by Thomas Dolby, I know it through Lene lovich who recorded it, that touches on the problems of the consumer society we live in. Analis Morisette this is irony, it was used a couple of years ago in a sony? commercial selling computer gadgets. :roll:

NEW TOY BY THOMAS DOLBY
Did I ask you for your love?
Did I ask you for your dedication?
I don't want, I don't want your love.
I don't want, I don't want your affection!
But I've got to have the car
(I need it for the weekend).
I've got to have the stereo,
(And a couple of deletions)
I've got to have the freezer
(Put some fun back in my eating)
I've got to have it all until I'm complete!
Chorus
I want a New Toy (oh ay oh), to keep my head expanding (ta).
I want a New Toy (oh ay oh), nothing too demanding (ta).
Then when everything is in roses everything is static (ta)
Yeh my New Toy (oh ay oh), you'll find us in the attic.
Second verse
You.. Sometimes you make me feel... I feel so insecure.
Sometimes you make me feel... nothing at all
I'm sick of the TV
(Well look at the news)
I'm sick of the radio
(But what can you do?)
I'm sick of the Hoover
(My mind's a vacuum)
I'm sick of it all, so what can I do?
Chorus
I get a New Toy (oh ay oh), to keep my head expanding (ta).
I get a New Toy (oh ay oh), nothing too demanding (ta).
Then when everything is in roses you don't get any headroom.
Yeh my New Toy (oh ay oh), you'll find us in the bedroom, yeh.
New Toy
New toy...
Cheers & DLight
Tri-me (tree-mite) Sheldrön
"Doorhinge rhymes with orange" Leonard Cohen
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Boss
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Postby Boss » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:30 am

Tri-Me please correct any of the following if necessary. Thanks.

Leonard Cohen has devoted much of his life to the teachings of Roshi. And, as is customary for Zen Buddhist religious leaders, Roshi teaches according to Siddhartha Gautama - The Buddha.

What of this man who lived circa 563 - 483 BCE? We are told he spent the first 29 years of his life in his father's small kingdom; being protected inside the palace walls from the outside world of suffering, old-age and death. He was married with a child. But something drove him out into the world. His quest to 'understand' suffering was immense. Why? Why did he give up all of his possessions in search of the truth? Why should he care? I believe it was because of his upbringing. His parents either loved their son to the extent that he felt compassion for the world or perhaps suffocated him with their protective ways. I don't know, but I'd like to think it was the former. Do we have much information regarding Siddhartha's formative years?

Tri-Me, I think you have a point when you say that "there is a benefit to having experience pain and suffering it can make a person more compassionate." As the Buddha's first Noble Truth says, Life is Suffering. It would be foolhardy to think it avoidable, but what I'm suggesting is that if a child has a semblance, a template of Love from his parents, he'll be better equipped to deal with a sometimes harsh and barren world. The Buddha didn't become enlightened until he sat under the Bo-tree. He had wandered in poverty for years. Who knows what he thought about? How he wept. To heal damage inflicted in childhood sometimes takes years too. However this journey is essential. It must be encountered for the TRUE SELF to appear. And this road is available to any who apply. Start thinking about your past now. How it has shaped you. The good times and the bad. You see, many things shape a human being. From childhood to the teachings of The Buddha.

In peace

Boss
Last edited by Boss on Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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