Leonard is bigger than money

News about Leonard Cohen and his work, press, radio & TV programs etc.
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Boss
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Leonard is bigger than money

Postby Boss » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:48 am

There is litigation going on. I've never been too good when it comes to things legal but I'm a little puzzled by the thread 'artist v. con-artist(s): an unhappy battle brewing'. It has currently stretched out to page 12 (at present 6214 hits)! Why is it that when the talk of money is about, the people come out. Why? Do you really think Leonard Cohen is going to be affected by this? He lives frugally. From what I know, he doesn't need too much.

It is not very important to a man of his stature, of his nature. He finds meaning in the arms of a lover, the words of a teacher, a flower. If he celebrates Shabbat tonight he will taste the wine and not worry of its cost. Mr. Cohen is a thinker - not of bank accounts but of oceans. Who are we to write 12 pages of his litigation? Don't you think he'd rather us ponder his transference of wisdom with people like Bono, The Edge et al. so they will carry on the fight? Don't you think he'd want us to fight for freedom?

Leonard Cohen is a respected, loved human being. I think if he knew that we devoted so much time to his finances he may be disappointed. He'd want us to find constructive ways to teach, to heal, to be compassionate, to give. He has instructed us by his art, and the world and Roshi instructed him. And it wasn't about money - it was about Love.
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Postby Adrian » Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:11 am

The late George Harrison was also a very spiritual person - one who saw well beyond this material world. Still, if you read interviews, he was perhaps the most outspoken and candid of the Beatles about how they were ripped off financially by record companies etc. etc.

Fairness and justice are also ideals. The fight for truth and freedom can also mean exposing and standing up to corruption.

And, in Leonard Cohen's life, after building up retirement monies, earned by his creativity and energy, do you not believe it would be wrong to have such monies unjustly taken from him?

The complex legal issues revolve around determining and apportioning responsibility for the losses ~ and seeking recompense. Does Leonard deserve anything less?

People may express themselves in different ways, but, I expect you'll find that most everyone discussing the loss of these well-earned savings do so because they care about the man who earned the money.
Last edited by Adrian on Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Adrian » Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:50 am

Here's an excerpt of one interview George Harrison gave - and it helps highlight the point that artists are not here to be ripped off. You work for your money, no one has a right to take it from you wrongfully, or to betray your trust - whatever your spiritual outlook. Here's George:

It’s like the Beatles were the most ripped-off people of all time, and, as for the record company, they should be ashamed of themselves–it’s one thing to treat some artist who’s here today and gone tomorrow with your crummy little royalty rate and treat ’em like trash, but a band like us who survived twenty-some odd years, sold a billion records for them at the lowest royalty rate you’ve ever heard of, and then still steal from you!? I’d be ashamed, I couldn’t do it. And to have to argue and fight with them and say, give us a break, man, you’re lucky to have anything. But if this thing with Capitol comes to court they’ll be lucky to end up owning the masters. There’s a good chance we’ll get back all our masters and everything. And The Beatles have never been greedy; we’ve never received huge royalties like some people now. You know, you get over a dollar fifty, at least, for an album. We get one old penny. One old English penny per album.

Right now. And even with that, there’s hundreds of thousands of albums mysteriously missing that they gave to pension funds run by the Mafia. It’s very dirty. So that’s what it’s all about, that suit against Capitol. It’s like, give us a break, we’re humans too. We created all this stuff and they were very fortunate to be a part of it inasmuch as distributing our records and making a profit on it.

I know. It’s disgusting, it’s immoral—and if that’s how they treat people they’re supposed to be in business with, that must be how they treat everybody. It’s immoral, that’s all there is to it, and ultimately they’ll all get it. I don’t mean from us, now, but somewhere down the line, in this life or the next life.

Absolutely. And half of those people are going to reincarnated getting one cent out of every CD they sell and sell more records than everybody and not receive any of the money. Be treated like lice.

If you put this in the interview, you can say I’m smiling about it, I’m not letting it depress me. But all this stuff that you read in the papers about This message has been classified as spam and will be deleted by the moderators and Capitol, that’s what’s been going on for years. They’ve all taken advantage of it because after the Beatles split up everybody was sort of not talking to each other, so they all came in, grabbing and plundering as much as they could. But now this is going to be pursued to the end, and even if we all die in the process, our children and our children’s children will be after Bhaskar Menon (Chairman and CEO of EMI Music Worldwide) and Capitol until he realizes he’s just being a dong.

There’s no way we can lose. Because if you just put all the cards on the table and see what we’ve got and what they’ve got, I think a blind man on a galloping horse would say that Capitol isn’t being fair. It’s just the balance: the law of nature demands that all things be equal, and this isn’t equal.
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Postby Boss » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:22 am

Adrian,

Can you envisage a world without money? You may think I live in 'la-la' land but it is a serious hypothesis - can you envisage a world without money? Sit and think on it. Work is still performed yet no money is earned. A million to one chance you reckon? I know. But that one chance has to be respected and devoured. It is, afterall, possible.

People would live for the day WILLING LIFE to improve. Not enslaved by it. Free and sharing. The entire monetary system is just symbol - gold, to denote one value. In reality it is meaningless. A cold metal. And the way we relate to it is atrocious. I despise it. Dream big dreams Adrian - today's truths are tomorrow's remembrances.

And don't worry of those 'cheating' out there, we'll get the fucking bastards.


In peace

Boss
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Postby Adrian » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:32 am

Hi Boss ~ you're talking to someone here who hasn't a penny, literally, in this world. And, I've worked pro bono for the past twenty years - so, I certainly appreciate that money is not the reality. Hey, I'm even a pioneer for the sort of world you envisage. For me, individually, it's not even hypothetical.

However, after working for more than a decade to aid the victims of white collar crime and malfeasance, I also came to understand that one of the great failings of our society is to appreciate that, though money is not the object, when such things occur as we're discussing now, it's important that justice and fairness and truth are established.

And, perhaps, I misread your post. But you asked why people were talking about his losses - and I gave my answer.

My point is that it's Leonard Cohen, not his money, that people care about here. At least, I know that's where I'm coming from, and, as far as I can tell, everyone else, doing their best to articulate their concerns, are similarly motivated - out of care. Love in fact.
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Postby Boss » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:56 am

G'day Adrian,

I got $302. I'm not knocking Leonard Cohen - he means a great deal to me. I just can't believe over 6000 hits on the site you began. I know money is not the important issue and it is indeed justice and truth that should prevail. But it's this paradigm - "You owe me this much, I owe you that much." It has infected our world so savagely. In the final analysis it is greed. Always has been. I applaud you for working over the last few decades. I have been avoiding psychiatric hospitals in the main, doing a little truck driving, a little gardening. I love Life Adrian and know that reality lives outside of one's wallet or purse. That's all I'm tryin' to say.

Boss
Last edited by Boss on Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tri-me » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:56 am

Hi Boss, have you heard of Institute for Social Ecology?
http://www.activistcash.com/organizatio ... fm/oid/227

I saw on a local science show "Daily Planet" a story about a man who has built a community in the destert somewhere in the states. They use solar power, cars are not allowed and they share the work, no money changes hands. ahhhh this would be nice.

Buy bye planet earth......Buy less live with less
Cheers & DLight
Tri-me (tree-mite) Sheldrön
"Doorhinge rhymes with orange" Leonard Cohen
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Postby Adrian » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:13 am

Well, Boss you've got $302 more than I've collected in my life. And I don't begrudge you a cent ( : (I do hope you have enough for your needs.)

Perhaps, I am being too global in attributing honourable motives to all here. But, that's my starting point - I believe in the good nature of the folks here. And, while personalities come into play, and there's been plenty of talk that's got little or nothing to do with the central issues, based on experiences in my last career, I'd say that the thread on Leonard's financial losses has definitely had a meaningful purpose.

(Of course, at some point, everything runs its course - and, that discussion may have extended itself - or, there could be more real news coming. Some folks likely know. I don't...)

Thing is, the broker-dealers in Colorado, knowing their game well, led with a pre-emptive lawsuit, and then amplified their posture with a paid-for-PR newswire statement, that was loaded against Leonard Cohen. This was to be swallowed and regurgitated by a compliant media looking for stories.

The Leonard Cohen Files forum has been a leavening agent - and served as a counterpoint to the case being framed entirely, or substantially, by the Agile/Greenberg camp. Even the local reporters in Colorado would have presented things differently had this site and forum not existed. (I could be wrong, but I believe it was the way events unfolded that prompted the LC camp to have posted on this site their statement - which has now been read round the world point.) Overall, discussion here, which you can be sure has been read by the Colorado litigants as well as the press - has helped point to a fuller truth than would otherwise have been presented. There's potential for much greater good to come from that thread (in fact, one of the greatest boons to victims of white collar crime and malfeasance has been the internet) - but, it may not be...

As Young Dr. Freud has suggested, a quiet settlement may be in store. If so, that thread will soon expire, becoming less than a footnote to the mass of content here.

And, in any event, it IS temporal.

Leonard's music and person is, as your thread title states, much bigger than any such matters. And, is that which will remain - at the end of the day.

While the wheel is still in spin, however, it cannot hurt for balancing forces to present themselves. And, maybe some folks are just looking for juicy gossip - and some may be dazzled by dollars. But that doesn't seem to really be what it's about. I see a lot of people, from around the world, who are distressed and anxious that misfortune (literal or figurative) has befallen a man who has so enriched their lives.

So, we're coming from the same place, my friend, we're just looking from a different vantage.

:)
Last edited by Adrian on Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Boss » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:25 am

G'day Adrian,

I got $302. I'm not knocking Leonard Cohen - he means a great deal to me. I just can't believe over 6000 hits on the site you began. I know money is not the important issue and it is indeed justice and truth that should prevail. But it's this paradigm - "You owe me this much, I owe you that much." It has infected our world so savagely. In the final analysis it is greed. Always has been. I applaud you for working over the last few decades. I have been avoiding psychiatric hospitals in the main, doing a little truck driving, a little gardening. I love Life Adrian and know that reality lives outside of one's wallet or purse. That's all I'm tryin' to say.

Bullshit, that's all I'm trying to say. You all want to know the amount, how much, the sordid little details. Why don't you leave him alone. You say "My point is that it's Leonard Cohen, not his money, that people care about here." Bullshit. They want to know the figures, "how much?" Get your greedy souls off that thread and put on some Bach, lay on the floor and try and ask yourself why you'd be prying into Cohen's affairs. What business is it of yours. Think HE looks into YOUR little bank slip when you perform your business? That thread is anti-Life. Cancer.

Boss[/quote]
Last edited by Boss on Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Boss » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:31 am

Thank you Tri Me (pronounced Tree-May) you made my day!

In deep peace,

Boss
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Postby Adrian » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:36 am

well, if that's the true way you feel, then it's good you let it out, Boss

Perhaps your loathing of money has poisoned your ability to see a bigger picture. In effect, such an attachment could allow money to influence you as much as it does those who covet it.

In any event, should there be the sort of petty, greedy, souls with malevolent interests lurking about, you've called them on it!

And, for those who have not such motivation, well, we know your feelings!
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Postby annaedith » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:36 am

hi boss,
i found your words great, the idea behind it. it might be true that this case is worth a discussion, but we really should spend more words on the other things. we can deal with real things so much, may this forum be the spiritual counterpart (okay, this sounds a bit strange, but i haven't been burning too many incense sticks...) reading all the posts, i do wish there were more of the positive sort, less of money, accusations, arguing and intolerance.
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Postby Adrian » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:39 am

while it does seem intolerant that people should be told what to talk about or not to talk about in a public forum, particularly when that discussion relates to a public court filing and related news that's been reported 'round the world, it's also true that Boss feels passionately and has made such an edict based not out of any personal malice but based on a personal belief system, and a judgement that it's peoples' baser nature in evidence

in contrast to Boss's viewpoint, I believe more in the good nature of the members of this community, and that people have, for the most part, conducted themselves positively in light of such a dramatic and distressing development as it would, naturally, be interpreted by a reasonable person

still, it may well be that much of the discussion of the Colorado case has outlived its purposefulness for only the litigants know that they know of each other, and how much of this truth they want known; and time will tell that
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Postby Boss » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:49 am

What is a 'reasonable person'?
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Postby Adrian » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:51 am

while it has a recognized legal definition, I'd define a reasonable person as a person possessing of reason

what does it mean to you?
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