Manchester Sham
Re: Manchester Sham
Okay enough of Manchester Sham as a thread title.
Leonard Cohen is in no way involved in the selling of these tickets. The four Manchester gigs are part of the Manchester Festival. For one night only The Manchester Festival organisers have done a deal with The Guardian whereby The Guardian gain sales and publicity in return for , I would gusss, giving the 2009 Manchester Festival a prominent part in a supplement when it is announced for next year.
This was never going to be an evening solely for Guardian readers otherwise they would have made the sale a collect tokens job over a week and submit them to the paper by mail. However if they had done that no doubt people on here would have complained the The Guardian were making money out of this even more by making you buy 7 papers.
Using Bob Dylan's system of putting a few hundred of the best seats aside and selling them through approved fan contacts is fine and to be applauded.
However setting such a thing up for what is undoubtebly going to be a one off tour rather than a regular annual thing as with Dylan is not feasible. Let's face it the simplest way of doing what everyone here wanted was for the original pre-sale promise announced on here to have been carried out in respect of UK and European dates and there would be none of this griping going on.
Since Leonard's management could not organise this in time then that is the route cause of a lot of people on here who are long time members being ticketless. However not all Leonard Cohen fans are members of this forum or have the ability to be. There are tens of thousands more non members also without tickets.
All this apportioning blame to others is pointless. The ticket market has changed completely in the 15 years since Leonard last toured both financially and in the way tickets are actually sold. Leonard's promoters have done what is required. Convert hundreds of thousands of tickets into sold ones.
If you are ticketless the fault is not Ticketmaster, not the gangmasters and there kids queuing at venues, not touts and not ebay sellers. These amount to a small proportion of the tickets actually sold.
The fault is simply demand versus supply.
Having said that 7 of my fellow Cohen fans and I tried to get tickets and got them for each of the four nights in Manchester with no trouble whatsoever using Ticketmaster online, Ticketmaster over the phone and Ticketmaster outlets in person. It just required you to be quick off the mark at 10am both mornings the on sales happened. We do not possess a super fast computer connection, a backdoor way into Ticketmaster phone lines or contacts in box offices and we all scored with the exception of one of us.
We were all either very lucky or simply more fully conversent with how to use the existing ticket selling systems to our advantage. I believe it is the latter.
Selling tickets is more complicated than it ever has been and is no longer a case of the first at the box office at 10am that gets the front rows. This is not good but it is how it is. We must deal with it.
Dave
Leonard Cohen is in no way involved in the selling of these tickets. The four Manchester gigs are part of the Manchester Festival. For one night only The Manchester Festival organisers have done a deal with The Guardian whereby The Guardian gain sales and publicity in return for , I would gusss, giving the 2009 Manchester Festival a prominent part in a supplement when it is announced for next year.
This was never going to be an evening solely for Guardian readers otherwise they would have made the sale a collect tokens job over a week and submit them to the paper by mail. However if they had done that no doubt people on here would have complained the The Guardian were making money out of this even more by making you buy 7 papers.
Using Bob Dylan's system of putting a few hundred of the best seats aside and selling them through approved fan contacts is fine and to be applauded.
However setting such a thing up for what is undoubtebly going to be a one off tour rather than a regular annual thing as with Dylan is not feasible. Let's face it the simplest way of doing what everyone here wanted was for the original pre-sale promise announced on here to have been carried out in respect of UK and European dates and there would be none of this griping going on.
Since Leonard's management could not organise this in time then that is the route cause of a lot of people on here who are long time members being ticketless. However not all Leonard Cohen fans are members of this forum or have the ability to be. There are tens of thousands more non members also without tickets.
All this apportioning blame to others is pointless. The ticket market has changed completely in the 15 years since Leonard last toured both financially and in the way tickets are actually sold. Leonard's promoters have done what is required. Convert hundreds of thousands of tickets into sold ones.
If you are ticketless the fault is not Ticketmaster, not the gangmasters and there kids queuing at venues, not touts and not ebay sellers. These amount to a small proportion of the tickets actually sold.
The fault is simply demand versus supply.
Having said that 7 of my fellow Cohen fans and I tried to get tickets and got them for each of the four nights in Manchester with no trouble whatsoever using Ticketmaster online, Ticketmaster over the phone and Ticketmaster outlets in person. It just required you to be quick off the mark at 10am both mornings the on sales happened. We do not possess a super fast computer connection, a backdoor way into Ticketmaster phone lines or contacts in box offices and we all scored with the exception of one of us.
We were all either very lucky or simply more fully conversent with how to use the existing ticket selling systems to our advantage. I believe it is the latter.
Selling tickets is more complicated than it ever has been and is no longer a case of the first at the box office at 10am that gets the front rows. This is not good but it is how it is. We must deal with it.
Dave
Re: Manchester Sham
Posting the Guardian code here was ill advised. For every overseas devotee it helped, it allowed 20 secondary marketeers (who know that booking often opens early) get in front, without even getting out of bed to get the guardian.
I would say better luck next time, but we all know there is no next time.
Toodle-pip
I would say better luck next time, but we all know there is no next time.
Toodle-pip
Re: Manchester Sham
Agree with you Jerry all the way. I got through online on Thursday at 9.58 and was offered Row R in the stalls which is great but it made me wonder who managed to get all the seats in rows A -Q considering the tickets were not to go on sale until 10.
Re: Manchester Sham
Hi davem99,
I don't think Leonard is being blamed by anyone,and I guess that he would not be happy with the way this situation has panned out.
You said:
and
This is simply NOT TRUE.
There are also reports on this forum, which I also experienced personally,that both their phone and internet systems may have experienced faults.
Ticketmaster also owns some other sites that facilitate the re-selling of tickets.
I personally think that posting the Guardian's 'password' on this forum was the right thing to do. One of the forum's functions is to share info amongst fans;it was helpful and well intentioned.I don't think it will have made much difference to the touting activities;they are much more organized than to rely on the offchance of the password being announced on this forum.I bet they had it long before the paper's distribution on Friday a.m.
The Guardian's involvement in this looks more like an opportunistic ploy to boost sales.
I don't think Leonard is being blamed by anyone,and I guess that he would not be happy with the way this situation has panned out.
You said:
However I do think theGuardian's advertising was misleading:This was never going to be an evening solely for Guardian readers otherwise they would have made the sale a collect tokens job over a week and submit them to the paper by mail. However if they had done that no doubt people on here would have complained the The Guardian were making money out of this even more by making you buy 7 papers.
See the legendary Leonard Cohen live in concert.Exclusive performance for Guardian readers
and
This is your chance to see Leonard Cohen in an exclusive live appearance for Guardian readers at Manchester Opera House on Thursday June 19.
This is simply NOT TRUE.
Apparently Ticketmaster did begin ticket sales a few minutes earlier than stated on Friday morning.They normally insist to early-callers that they must stick to the advertised time(as Jarkko's and Jim's post states).Because of the high demand for tickets,this proved to be a significant factor in some people missing out.If you are ticketless the fault is not Ticketmaster, not the gangmasters and there kids queuing at venues, not touts and not ebay sellers. These amount to a small proportion of the tickets actually sold.
There are also reports on this forum, which I also experienced personally,that both their phone and internet systems may have experienced faults.
Ticketmaster also owns some other sites that facilitate the re-selling of tickets.
I personally think that posting the Guardian's 'password' on this forum was the right thing to do. One of the forum's functions is to share info amongst fans;it was helpful and well intentioned.I don't think it will have made much difference to the touting activities;they are much more organized than to rely on the offchance of the password being announced on this forum.I bet they had it long before the paper's distribution on Friday a.m.
The Guardian's involvement in this looks more like an opportunistic ploy to boost sales.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies"~ Groucho Marx
Re: Manchester Sham
Ticketmaster sold tickets early, a couple of minutes before 9 for Edinburgh and before 10 for Manchester on both March 14th and April 4th.
Re: Manchester Sham
I would guess the selection of tickets is purely random, I got my tickets for the Thursday show at 2 minutes to 10, and they were in row T in the stalls,
no way at that time was it possible for rows A-S to have been sold out.It is all a matter of Luck,on the same morning at 9am I was booking tickets for another gig through ticketmaster, the tickets offered were awful , I didn't accept , rang the venue hung on for 15 mins and got great tickets,all luck of the draw,
however something does need to be done about ticket agents methods and motives.
no way at that time was it possible for rows A-S to have been sold out.It is all a matter of Luck,on the same morning at 9am I was booking tickets for another gig through ticketmaster, the tickets offered were awful , I didn't accept , rang the venue hung on for 15 mins and got great tickets,all luck of the draw,
however something does need to be done about ticket agents methods and motives.
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Re: Manchester Sham
Adressing several posts at once...there is blame here, and it points mainly toTicketmaster. First of all they run the despicable Ticket Exchange Scam which allows ticket buyers to immediately re-sell tickets at outrageous prices (thus they are facilitating touts). Furthermore, they put their online tickets onsale early, which is totally out of order. A friend of mine, who suspected they might be doing this, phoned them at 9.55 am, got through, and was told he couldn't buy tickets till 10am. He managed to keep them talking, then at 10 am, they told him they could only offer row X (which he refused). Returning to Ticket Exchange, I believe the promoter decides whether to be part of this scheme, and that profits are split between the seller and promoter/artist. This doesn't reflect well on the promoter or the artist, though I doubt if Leonard is involved. After all, he said in an interview that originally, he wasn't even going to take Kelley Lynch to court, because of his age and because he knows he will always have enough money to live reasonably comfortably for the rest of his life. Finally, it was ill advised to put the password on here, because people have had enough time to do their homework. They shouldn't just be handed things on a plate...the least they can do is get their ass out of bed to buy the Guardian...That's all I gotta say!
John E
John E
Re: Manchester Sham
The tickets went on sale at 9.56 am according to the computer system at work. I got row J in the stalls at that time so yes, I would say that rows A-S were either sold or in the process of being sold when you were allocated row T. You're right, it is a matter of luck but so are a lot of other things in this world.John J wrote:I would guess the selection of tickets is purely random, I got my tickets for the Thursday show at 2 minutes to 10, and they were in row T in the stalls,
no way at that time was it possible for rows A-S to have been sold out.It is all a matter of Luck.
By the way, we are longstanding Dylan fans and I had absolutely no idea that there was an organised allocation of priority tickets. We've always done OK but it's been down to organisation, luck and perseverence. I remember both of us sitting up in bed at 3.00 am in a hotel room in New York once trying to call the Birmingham NEC box office on two cell phones to be rewarded with 4th row seats .....
W
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Re: Manchester Sham
Sorry, can't let that be the last word here. My thanks again to those in this wonderful community who realised that there are some who could NOT get on to a level playing field any other way.John Etherington wrote:Finally, it was ill advised to put the password on here, because people have had enough time to do their homework. They shouldn't just be handed things on a plate...the least they can do is get their ass out of bed to buy the Guardian...That's all I gotta say!
John E
i do hope that Jarkko, Alan, et al, will do the same next time and not be put off by couple of people who feel somehow cheated.
Still reliving every second of:1970 Isle of Wight, 1985 Birmingham, 2008 Manchester OH , Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bournemouth, Birmingham, 2009 Liverpool and ................ :o)
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Re: Manchester Sham
Well it certainly is a great pity that the guardian didn't reserve the best 100 or so seats to those who had turned up at the theatre with a copy of the guardian. still i'm deeply grateful that the guardian scheme gave us all a second chance to get into the opera house . i was refreshing the ticketmaster page from 9.45 . it started selling tickets at 9.58 and i managed to get - miraculously -2 good seats in the front stalls .
I will be going with my ex wife. We've always had a fantasy of seeing LC live and its very exciting . i only hope we will be surrounded by fans who haven't had to pay disgaceful amounts to touts. it's unfortunate they can get away with double theft- from the fans and also from Leonard cohen himself
I will be going with my ex wife. We've always had a fantasy of seeing LC live and its very exciting . i only hope we will be surrounded by fans who haven't had to pay disgaceful amounts to touts. it's unfortunate they can get away with double theft- from the fans and also from Leonard cohen himself
Leonard's work resonates
Brighton 1979; Dublin , Manchester june 2008; glasgow, manchester Nov 2008; Liverpool july 2009 ; Barcelona Sept 2009 ;marseille, lille september2010: Ghent August 2012;Barcelona October 2012;Montreal x2 November 2012: 2013; Saint John NB April 2013; Brussels June 2013;Manchester August 2013; Leeds , Birmingham September 2013; Amsterdam September 2013
Brighton 1979; Dublin , Manchester june 2008; glasgow, manchester Nov 2008; Liverpool july 2009 ; Barcelona Sept 2009 ;marseille, lille september2010: Ghent August 2012;Barcelona October 2012;Montreal x2 November 2012: 2013; Saint John NB April 2013; Brussels June 2013;Manchester August 2013; Leeds , Birmingham September 2013; Amsterdam September 2013
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Re: Manchester Sham
Brokenhill's post above actually quotes me out of context. There were two Manchester threads, and my quote in this thread followed
my earlier one, which I've copied below (anyway, glad that brokenhill and cohenadmirer managed to get tickets). John E
Re: Guardian/Manchester Thursday gig...
by John Etherington on Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:49 pm
Re: the whole Guardian business, it is debatable whether there was any purpose in the promotion, since it had no structure and probably hasn't given the Guardian much cred. That said, however, the whole idea was that Guardian readers were being given an opportunity. So the very least that one could have done,if able, was to buy a copy of the Guardian; and for those who were
unwell, disabled etc - to make alternative arrangements or (one would hope) be advised of the password by the friend. The problem with putting a password on the world wide web is that numerous touts throughout the world have instant access to it. Therefore, considering the number of tickets and the touts expertise in seizing the best, I suspect the number of tickets obtained by true fans yesterday was minimal . I for one didn't get a ticket, even though I went online at 10 am on the dot.John Etherington
my earlier one, which I've copied below (anyway, glad that brokenhill and cohenadmirer managed to get tickets). John E
Re: Guardian/Manchester Thursday gig...
by John Etherington on Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:49 pm
Re: the whole Guardian business, it is debatable whether there was any purpose in the promotion, since it had no structure and probably hasn't given the Guardian much cred. That said, however, the whole idea was that Guardian readers were being given an opportunity. So the very least that one could have done,if able, was to buy a copy of the Guardian; and for those who were
unwell, disabled etc - to make alternative arrangements or (one would hope) be advised of the password by the friend. The problem with putting a password on the world wide web is that numerous touts throughout the world have instant access to it. Therefore, considering the number of tickets and the touts expertise in seizing the best, I suspect the number of tickets obtained by true fans yesterday was minimal . I for one didn't get a ticket, even though I went online at 10 am on the dot.John Etherington
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Re: Manchester Sham
Sorry if you already know about this, but today the Guardian is giving away 25 pairs of tickets, ( Manchester June 19th ), - answer simple question for a chance to win.
You can go straight to their online site. Good Luck!
You can go straight to their online site. Good Luck!