One's not half two. It's two are halves of one.

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muddy
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One's not half two. It's two are halves of one.

Postby muddy » Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:31 pm

one's not half two. It's two are halves of one:
which halves reintegrating,shall occur
no death and any quantity;but than
all numerable mosts the actual more

minds ignorant of stern miraculous
this every truth-beware of heartless them
(given the scalpel,they dissect a kiss;
or,sold the reason,they undream a dream)

one is the song which fiends and angels sing:
all murdering lies by mortals told make two.
Let liars wilt,repaying life they're loaned;
we(by a gift called dying born)must grow

deep in dark least ourselves remembering
love only rides his year.
All lose,whole find




E E Cummings
muddy
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Postby muddy » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:12 pm

I think that EE Cummings is not welcome in the forum, how can it be?...Well, I just say it because I noticed that there's another poem of him, posted by Sandra, and without a single response....Am I wrong? Please, tell me that I'm wrong.
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jerry
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Postby jerry » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:43 pm

I don't know but this poem is incomprehensible to me.
Poetry is just the evidence of life. If your life is burning well, poetry is just the ash.
Leonard Cohen
muddy
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Postby muddy » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:48 pm

Maybe it is, but maybe we should discuss if poetry can really be comprehensible. I don't believe that, I think poetry as mistery; my opinion is that we can feel the meaning of poetry, but we can't know it or understand it...
muddy
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Postby muddy » Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:36 pm

But I won't insist on it... it's just my opinion.
muddy
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Postby muddy » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:09 am

"kitty". sixteen, 5' 11", white, prostitute.



"kitty". sixteen, 5' 11", white, prostitute.

ducking always the touch of must and shall,
whose slippery body is Death's littlest pal,

skilled in quick softness. Unspontaneous. cute.

the signal perfume of whose unrepute
focusses in the sweet slow animal
bottomless eyes importantly banal,

Kitty. a whore. Sixteen
you corking brute
amused from time to time by clever drolls
fearsomely who do keep their sunday flower.
The babybreasted broad "kitty" twice eight

--beer nothing, the lady'll have a whiskey-sour--

whose least amazing smile is the most great
common divisor of unequal souls.



E E Cummings
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:54 pm

Hi Muddy ~

I feel a dilemma with your posted question here [and another one you made earlier regarding another poem you posted, that received no response]:
I think that EE Cummings is not welcome in the forum, how can it be?...Well, I just say it because I noticed that there's another poem of him, posted by Sandra, and without a single response....Am I wrong? Please, tell me that I'm wrong.
The dilemma I feel comes from my having commented that I feel frustrated when someone posts a poem, but puts nothing from themselves with it, no comment of why it means something to them, or anything else. Your response [without finding it to quote directly] was to the effect that, for you, poetry stands on its own.

So, the lack of response to the poems you post may be affirming that for others, it does the same. If you have no interest in commenting when you post them, why should you feel aggrieved when others don't comment after you post them? To phrase it slightly differently, why should you expect others to do what you're not willing [and don't feel it's necessary] to do yourself? In addition, why would you feel it's negative toward the poet [or your having posted it] when others don't comment?

However, another quote that seems to fit [in this case, here] is: "Contradiction is the criterion of reality." ~ Simone Weil

~ Lizzy :wink:
muddy
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Postby muddy » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:03 pm

hi, Lizzy...

what I'd really like is some kind of reaction. I mean, if you like it, you can say something nice. if you don't, you can say why you think that or maybe say it without giving reasons (poetical explanations, hylarious explanations, whatever you like). You can make fun of it too!
if I had to change something would be this silence, a post with 123 views and only replied by me.


Muddy.
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:03 pm

Hi Lizzy,


I know your intentions are good and made very happy to read your kind words again, but I dont think that poetry has to be explained. You like it or you don't like it, that's all. The fact of adding things or memories to a poem written by someone that I respect but don't know is make smaller and smaller the mistery around it. You know, I think you could read it in some of my old posts, I dont like autobiographical explanations or very long explanations about the meaning of each word in a poem, each images; i dont believe any of them and, in fact, I dont think that poets think about the meaning behind each images, each names. They write, that's enough. When they asked Bob Dylan about A hard rain is gonna fall, they said ¿is it about atomic rain?, and he said no, it's about hard rain. A brillant answer.
Well, I think I'm out of the subject, but anyway...

See you,


Muddy.
Hi Muddy ~

I'm being very respectful when I'm asking if you see the distinction [or the similarity :D ] that I'm making, or trying to make :wink: , when I say these things. This [the above] was your response to me, when I had said:
However, this is a great opportunity to express to you what I've wanted to express to Jerry and anyone else. It would be so much more enjoyable [for me] if you/people would include some editorial comment[s] as to why this poem, this song touches them, is important to them, is/has been meaningful in their lives, to the extent that they bring it here to share it.
When I mentioned some possibilities here for some kinds of editorial comments, I didn't mean for these to be the only types, or that these had to be part of them. This was meant to include what you've said here, as well:
I mean, if you like it, you can say something nice. if you don't, you can say why you think that or maybe say it without giving reasons (poetical explanations, hylarious explanations, whatever you like). You can make fun of it too!
My point, of course, is I'd like to see your own comments when you initially post the poem, i.e. how this poem is affecting you in the first place, to the point of your posting it :) . I'm interested in what your initial [or subsequent] reaction to it was, when you first read it, as you obviously had one, which resulted in your bringing it here.

I'm not meaning to give you a hard time, just trying to understand your wanting others to do what you're [seemingly] unwilling to do yourself.

Highest regards in all of this,
Lizzy
muddy
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Postby muddy » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:33 pm

hi, lizzy

i dont know, i guess my comments are unnecessary at some point... my comment, some way, are into the poem I posted... any writer, any poet, at least in my opinion, decides to write in a symbolic way, with words that are strange to the everydays streets talking because he can't explain its own feeling or thoughts plainly... i posted some other poems without a comment and they received a lot of marvellous comments.
the absence of comment may should have an explanation in the fact of there's no people here who likes Cummings or T S Eliot...


Muddy.



ps: if I'm a little confusing sometimes is because it's hard to express myself in english when the subject is deep, as I think this is...
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:08 pm

Hi Muddy ~

Yes, you're right, it is deep... and difficult to express exactly what you're wanting to. My point is that you're wanting from others, what I'm wanting from the get-go... your own, marvelous comments are no less important to me than those of others, or that those of others are to you. If that weren't so, you could intuit that the others think the exact same thing of the poems that you do, and for the same reasons, and could just let it go with saying, "I like that," which is a good comment to give, but not really "marvelous" from my perspective. When I read the poems people post, absent any comment, I figure they like it somewhere from a 5>on, on a scale of 1-10; however, I have no reliable thinking as to exactly why.

Even though it seems it's self-explanatory what it means or how it affected you, just by the fact of your posting it, the reality is that it isn't. Just by how it affects me, I could read into it that it affects you the same way, when in fact, it does nothing of the sort. You may glean from it something entirely different.

I know there are people here who appreciate ee cummings and T.S. Eliot ~ I recall an ee cummings' poem being shared here previously.

Anyway, Muddy, I won't belabour this further; however, I do hope to read something of what makes these poems that you post special to you.

~ Lizzy :D
muddy
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Postby muddy » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:40 pm

all right.... but you like or you dislike Cummings, T S Eliot?
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:49 pm

I like ee cummings and I'm much less familiar with T.S. Eliot. I remember reading cummings in college, yet I know that I know something of Eliot, as well. Nothing comes to mind immediately with regard to what he's written, but with me, that fact is meaningless :wink: ; but there are so many people here who are well aware of the classic poets and writers, that I know there are others who like them, one or the other, or both!

The poem above only slightly reminds me of one I wrote regarding a couple I only knew from afar... I was in college, attending where there was a campus. I was attracted to him, and I could understand [of course] her attraction to him, as well as his attraction to her. I would see them walk together, depart for classes, meet up again, stand and talk, kiss goodbye, etc.

I wrote a poem, something to the effect of " . . . as their he-she I passes me." They seemed to complement each other, so well, as to be symbiotic and, in their way, to have merged into one... although I was compelled to see them as being separate, as well. Perhaps, I still have that poem somewhere [though no idea where to look], but I recall playing with the concept of their merging, of themselves as separate entities, into one, and my separateness from that.

The first line of ee's poem reminds me of that.

~ Lizzy
muddy
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Postby muddy » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:06 pm

" . . . as their he-she I passes me." sounds good.

one day, i'm going to have the guts to translate myself. i'd like to post something, but my poems are influenced by french symbolism -or that would be something nice to say- and it's quite difficult because the translation often produces a complete different poem.


Muddy.
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:34 pm

Aww, thanks for that suggestion, Muddy. I seriously doubt it could hold up to any objective standard of "good" in the poetry realms, but at the time, it captured for posterity the feelings I had as I watched them together. My attraction for him was based on who-knows-what. Actually, I have no idea how this came about ~ perhaps, a brief conversation with him[?] ~ but, somehow, I recall learning that he was a 'bleeder' ~ that term refers to someone whose blood doesn't coagulate as it should, so they are vulnerable to bleeding to death, in operations or injuries. I recall feeling even more tenderly toward him, after learning that.

Anyway, as attracted as I was to him, the poem helped me to keep everything in perspective ~ acknowledging my own feelings toward him, at the same time that I acknowledged and respected their own feelings toward each other, how they each were as individuals, and how symbiotic they at least appeared to be, as they really did seem as 'one' and their 'whole' was greater than the sum of the[ir] parts [each of them as individuals]. There was a physical resemblance, as well as an energy resemblance between them. They both had darker blonde hair, that was straight and longish. They were both slender. They both seemed to speak gently and walked lightly. I loved watching them together, and ultimately decided the combination of them was better than the combination of him with me would be. They were both very tender with each other, and I love seeing that between couples, whether I'm attracted to the man or not. It's just such a beautiful thing. Writing the poem assisted in that reframing of the situation. It was nice to just be able to admire them from afar, simply as a couple, and what each seemed to bring to that 'equation.' I've often wondered if they ended up together on some permanent kind of basis. It seems I spoke with each of them at one point or another. [I wish I'd included that in my poem, so I'd know for sure :lol: .]

I wish you'd at least try posting some of your poems here, Muddy. If there's an area you're uncertain about, I know a number of us would be willing to assist you in finding the [hopefully] most 'correct' term[s] for the thought.

~ Lizzy
Last edited by lizzytysh on Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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