influences on leonard?

Debate on Leonard Cohen's poetry (and novels), both published and unpublished. Song lyrics may also be discussed here.
User avatar
mat james
Posts: 1746
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 8:06 am
Location: Australia

Postby mat james » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:11 pm

I'll try again Greg!
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
User avatar
~greg
Posts: 818
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:26 am

Postby ~greg » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:56 pm

The teaser was for Jack, because Jack thinks
that my philosophy is fool's gold. He even
wrote me a poem about it. About how he can't
be fooled by fool's gold. Which reminded me
of Dylan's liner note on "Highway 61 Revisited"
about "hipguard"
"Lifelessness is the Great Enemy
& always wears a hip guard -- he is very hipguard . . . .
Lifelessness said when introducing everybody
"go save the world" & "involvement! that's the issue"
& things like that & Savage Rose winked at Fixable
& the Cream went off with his arm in a sling singing
"summertime & the livin is easy" . .
If you caught the news item yesterday about
the unfortunate Mrs Lisa Nowak (-the astronaut
who drove 900 miles in a diaper in an attempt
to off a rival, -- whereas just last July self-same
lady had passed all of NASA's sanity checks
and was considered sane enough to fly a shuttle
mission) then you'd know exactly why I worry
about Jack. It's because it's a proven fact now,
what many had suspected, that too much time
in outer-space is hazardous to mental health.


(
However, to be more just, I should
add that when I was in my late teens, and had
a great passion for mathematics, there was
a rumor going around that I "would achieve the 4th dimension",
whatever that meant. Nor did I know if it was nasty
or nice, but my girlfriend clarified the issue.
She said that whenever anyone said it around her
she'd reply
"He already has. It's the other 3 he's lost."
(Which was nasty.)

However that was before.
And like Bo Diddley says:
"But now I'm a man,
way past 21
Want you to believe me baby,
I had lots of fun"

)
User avatar
lizzytysh
Posts: 25339
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.A.

Postby lizzytysh » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:01 pm

"He already has. It's the other 3 he's lost."
(Which was nasty.)

Funny, though :wink: . But, I'm sorry it was at your expense. Not to worry with my laughter, though; some such could just as easily be said about me :D :roll:

Did you get my PM, by the way?


~ Lizzy
lazariuk
Posts: 1857
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:38 am
Location: Montreal

Postby lazariuk » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:15 pm

~greg wrote:The teaser was for Jack, because Jack thinks
that my philosophy is fool's gold. He even
wrote me a poem about it. About how he can't
be fooled by fool's gold.
no I don't
no I didn't
yes I can

I have no idea what your philosophy is other than it seems to prevent you from being direct with me.
I told you why I wrote the poem the same as I told those here.
I asked you to look at it because I thought that the glitter i saw in you wasn't because of fool's gold.

I guess you showed me what a fool I am by making me cry
lazariuk
Posts: 1857
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:38 am
Location: Montreal

Postby lazariuk » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:53 pm

Frankie Laine (Francesco Paolo LoVecchio), singer, born March 30 1913; died February 6 2007

Singer of Jezebel

another influence
BoHo

Postby BoHo » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:00 pm

> I guess you showed me what a fool I am by making me cry<<

Jack, please, don't cry. It makes me cry with you. You've had enough tears . . . more than your *fair* share. I'm sorry.

Frankie Laine, yes. And, Hank Sr. And, Patti Page. And, Lewis Furey. And, David Blue. And, Louis Dudek, Gael Turnbull, T. S. Eliot, Sylvia Plath, the Beatles, Dostoevsky, Lorca, Cavafy, Seferis, Mailer, Miller (all three millers), Nin, Durrell, Creeley, Dante, Zukofsky, Olson, the Bible, not just a book of It, here and there, all of It, Joplin, Beckett, Burroughs, Alberta Hunter, Jellyroll Morton, Louis Armstrong, Nat King Cole, Rufe Payne, Elvis, Buddy Holly, Merle Haggard, Ginsberg, Lowell, George Jones, Buck Owens, H.D., and more; but, I'm really here to say, Don't cry, Jack; please, don't cry anymore . . .

Jf/ox
lazariuk
Posts: 1857
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:38 am
Location: Montreal

Postby lazariuk » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:47 pm

BoHo wrote: It makes me cry with you.
You made me think about dragging out my Holly Cole CD

Cry if you want to
I won't tell you not to
I won't try to cheer you up
I'll just be here if you want me

There's no use in keeping a stiff upper lip
You can weep you can sleep you can loosen your grip
You can frown you can drown and go down with the ship
You can cry if you want you

Don't ever apologize venting your pain
It's something to me you don't need to explain
I don't need to know why I don't think it's insane
You can cry if you want to

The windows are closed the neighbors aren't home
If it's better with me then to do it alone
I'll draw all the curtains and unplug the phone
You can cry if you want to

You can stare at the ceiling tear at your hair
Swallow your feelings and stagger and swear
You can show things and throw things and I wouldn't care
You can cry if you want to

No I won't make fun of you I won't tell anyone
I won't analyze what you do or you should have done
I won't advise you to go and have fun
You can cry if you want to

when it's empty and ugly and terribly sad
I can't feel what you feel but I know it feels bad
I know that it's real and it makes you so mad
You can cry

Cry if you want to
I won't tell you not to
I won't try to cheer you up
I'll just be here if you want me to be near you
BoHo

Postby BoHo » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:06 am

Oh, I'm happy you're okay. Is all. Don't let the teardrops rust your shining heart, Jack :).

JF/ox
--
THE ITEM THAT HE SENT HER:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/leonardcohen.html
ADAGIOS III — ELECTRA'S BENISON, BOUND!
http://www.oberonpress.ca/titles.pl?v=new
JUDITH FITZGERALD'S EVER-EVOLVING WRITESITE:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/
LEONARD COHEN'S OPEN BOOK OF LONGING:
http://tinyurl.com/yno7z7
POET PARLIAMENTAEIRIAL JUDITH FITZGERALD:
http://tinyurl.com/38ssjq
THE AMERICAN BOOK REVIEW:
http://tinyurl.com/2h6op6
SUNITI NAMJOSHI'S BRIGHTSITE:
http://tinyurl.com/37jjvy
J.F. ON AL PURDY & ELI MANDEL @ CBC:
http://tinyurl.com/2vdrdq
User avatar
lizzytysh
Posts: 25339
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.A.

Postby lizzytysh » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:02 am

That's a wonderful song. Total acceptance. Unconditional. Freedom. Love.

Did Holly Cale write it or simply sing it?



~ Lizzy
lazariuk
Posts: 1857
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:38 am
Location: Montreal

Postby lazariuk » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:36 am

lizzytysh wrote:
Did Holly Cale write it or simply sing it?
I don't know. Maybe Paul Brandt wrote it.
BoHo

Postby BoHo » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:54 am

No, Lizzy, I don't have the CD handy (Hi, Handy :)); but, IIRC, Casey Scott composed it; I do know there are a few clips of the tune if you g00gle it on Holly Cole's "Don't Smoke In Bed" or NJ's Walter Trout — much-beloved secret of mine I don't like sharing because of his gorgeosity; but, he did a cover of it at the classily soaring Paradiso in Amsterdam and I think it's actually on his CD, Relentless — you'll learn about the guy whose creds include Dave Mason, John Mayall, Jeff Healey, Canned Heat, and, IIRC, again, he did one of the tunes on the Jimi Hendrix tribute CD a few ago.

He's amazing in his own right, the same kind of solace and searing beauty of Steve Goodman, I guess, another singer/songwriter/guitarist I love; but, he was breaking in the US just as B. Springsprung splattered his concocted anthems all over the airwaves. Still, like LC, he has a huge following in Europe. One of the big regrets is I've never seen him live; but, I do love his music, his take on tunes, and I bet Jack knows who he is or would love to know.

Jack, you posting those lyrics made my week; thank you for being there, in your lovely quiet glowing way. You're a good man; and, I am glad we are at peace in eloquent silence, mostly; but, you know my aim is true (and Holly Cole also covers Diana Krall's husband's "Alison" so, it's a small world spiralling outwards; but, if you look and listen closely and quietly, it's got a huge heart, as huge as yours, Guy).

Jf/ox
p.s. Try http://www.waltertrout.com (just a blab in the dark)
--
THE ITEM THAT HE SENT HER:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/leonardcohen.html
ADAGIOS III — ELECTRA'S BENISON, BOUND!
http://www.oberonpress.ca/titles.pl?v=new
JUDITH FITZGERALD'S EVER-EVOLVING WRITESITE:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/
LEONARD COHEN'S OPEN BOOK OF LONGING:
http://tinyurl.com/yno7z7
POET PARLIAMENTAEIRIAL JUDITH FITZGERALD:
http://tinyurl.com/38ssjq
THE AMERICAN BOOK REVIEW:
http://tinyurl.com/2h6op6
SUNITI NAMJOSHI'S BRIGHTSITE:
http://tinyurl.com/37jjvy
J.F. ON AL PURDY & ELI MANDEL @ CBC:
http://tinyurl.com/2vdrdq
User avatar
lizzytysh
Posts: 25339
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.A.

Postby lizzytysh » Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:13 am

8) John Mayall 8)

Thanks for the fill-in, Judith. I've been fortunate to see Steve Goodman, Live. A very small venue. Somehow, I got together with his P.R. very-gorgeous-sweet-guy man after the show. I can't remember how. I do remember I arrived early, so maybe that's when we met... me sitting amidst comfy, empty chairs waiting for the show to start. Maybe, that was how. Long time ago. We had a lovely time. I barely knew of Steve's music prior to the show... and don't recall how/why I got my ticket, maybe a recommendation. I enjoyed him immensely ~ both hims :wink: .


Love,
Lizzy
BoHo

Postby BoHo » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:11 am

> I've been fortunate to see Steve Goodman, Live.<<

<*stomps feet*> That's it!!1! I hate you, I rally rally hate you! Man, where's a moderator when you need one? Tom-Tom! Git her the hell offa this Forum. She's done bragged too much this time. She's crossed the line, Man-oh-manna, she's fallen off the face of the dearth. Git her to the Forum Jail, yesterdone!

Ah, Lizzy, what I would have given to be there; and, I would have met you then, too; and, we'd be lifelong friends a lot lifelier and longlier. Oh, well. When you visit this summer, I've got treats so sweet, your ears will tingle. These boots are made for sharing. I'll burn up the hard drivin' making you some of the best SG concerts I've heard on tape. Oh, gawd, you can call me Darlin', Darlin'; but, I think my fave is I Can't Sleep When I Can't Sleep With You. Oh, there are so many . . . What a genius he was. (Also, he loved the Chicago Cubs, eh? That makes him insanely fine!) Oh, also, The Dutchman, Door Number Three, and Penny Evans, as timely now as it was during Vietnam:

The Ballad Of Penny Evans
By Steve Goodman

Oh my name is Penny Evans
And my age is twenty-one
A young widow in the war
That's being fought in Vietnam
And I have two infant daughters
And I do the best I can
Now they say the war is over
But I think it's just begun

And I remember I was seventeen
On the day I met young Bill
At his father's grand piano
We'd play good old "Heart and Soul"
Well, I only knew the left-hand part
And he the right so well
He's the only boy I ever slept with
And the only one I will

It's first we had a baby girl
And we had two good years
It was next the 1A notice came
And we parted without tears
It was nine months from our last good night
Our second babe appears
So it's ten months and a telegramme
Confirming all our fears

And now every month
I get a cheque from an Army bureaucrat
And it's every month I tear it up
And I mail the damn thing back
Do you think that makes it all right
Do you think I'd fall for that
And you can keep your bloody money
It sure won't bring my Billy back

I never cared for politics
And speeches I don't understand
And likewise never took no charity
From any living man
But tonight there's fifty thousand gone
In that unhappy land
And fifty thousand Heart and Souls
being played with just one hand

And my name is Penny Evans
And I've just gone twenty-one
A young widow in the war
That's being fought in Vietnam
And I have two infant daughters
And I thank God I have no sons
Now they say the war is over
But I think it's just begun

Lizzy, I love the way Goodman spits out "God" in that line; and, I love the play on words with Penny "tearing" up the cheque to send it back to Uncle Sam. SG was as much an influence and visionary as LC. I can't believe he's not a national hero (and, even his best-know song, City Of New Orleans, isn't now a National AmAnthem). Like Handy says, C'est la vie, eh?

Love and Light in This Universal Dark Soul of the Night, Jf/ox
--
THE ITEM THAT HE SENT HER:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/leonardcohen.html
ADAGIOS III — ELECTRA'S BENISON, BOUND!
http://www.oberonpress.ca/titles.pl?v=new
JUDITH FITZGERALD'S EVER-EVOLVING WRITESITE:
http://www.judithfitzgerald.ca/
LEONARD COHEN'S OPEN BOOK OF LONGING:
http://tinyurl.com/yno7z7
POET PARLIAMENTAEIRIAL JUDITH FITZGERALD:
http://tinyurl.com/38ssjq
THE AMERICAN BOOK REVIEW:
http://tinyurl.com/2h6op6
SUNITI NAMJOSHI'S BRIGHTSITE:
http://tinyurl.com/37jjvy
J.F. ON AL PURDY & ELI MANDEL @ CBC:
http://tinyurl.com/2vdrdq
User avatar
lizzytysh
Posts: 25339
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.A.

Postby lizzytysh » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:39 am

Well, that didn't take long, Judithia, not long at all... you took me from out-loud laughter :lol: to tears :cry: . And, I go return to the laughter :lol: when I scroll north, and back to the tears when I fall south :cry: . Expression of our emotions is sometimes so accessible. Penny's song so profound and too fitting to today. This lyric "And fifty thousand Heart and Souls
being played with just one hand" ~ I can't but look at that 'playing' as being done with the one hand that signs the declaration of war, as well. A meaning-filled line. Like the tearing up of the check.


"City of New Orleans" ~ It would now represent both the best and the worst... no more rose-coloured glasses when singing of our nation :cry: .

Now, I don't know how Leonard felt about the Chicago Cubs, but he sang at the Quiet Knight in Chicago... does that give him the same measure of currency as Steve held in the palm of his hand?

This isjustforyou,Judithia:
A Dying Cubs Fan's Last Request by Steve Goodman
A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request will forever link Steve Goodman with the Chicago Cubs. In the "windy city", you can hear the song around the start of baseball season every season.

The song debuted on Roy Leonard's WGN radio show the day. Here is Leonard's recollection of that day, "The most memorable of all the visits, however, occurred on March 16, 1983, when Steve (Goodman) and Jethro Burns walked into our WGN studios around 11:00 a.m. They had just finished a weekend at Park West and Steve said he had a introduced a song the night before that he would like to sing on the radio for the first time. With Jethro on mandolin and Steve's guitar for accompaniment, A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request was heard on the radio the first time. Little did we know."

"If the Cubs were to win (The World Series) it would be a coronary event for me." - Steve Goodman


A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request
by Steve Goodman (1983)

A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request
By the shore's of old Lake Michigan
Where the "hawk wind" blows so cold
An old Cub fan lay dying
In his midnight hour that tolled
Round his bed, his friends had all gathered
They knew his time was short
And on his head they put this bright blue cap
From his all-time favorite sport
He told them, "Its late and its getting dark in here"
And I know its time to go
But before I leave the line-up
Boys, there's just one thing I'd like to know

Do they still play the blues in Chicago
When baseball season rolls around
When the snow melts away,
Do the Cubbies still play
In their ivy-covered burial ground
When I was a boy they were my pride and joy
But now they only bring fatigue
To the home of the brave
The land of the free
And the doormat of the National League

Told his friends "You know the law of averages says:
Anything will happen that can"
That's what it says
"But the last time the Cubs won a National League pennant
Was the year we dropped the bomb on Japan"
The Cubs made me a criminal
Sent me down a wayward path
They stole my youth from me
(that's the truth)
I'd forsake my teachers
To go sit in the bleachers
In flagrant truancy

and then one thing led to another
and soon I'd discovered alcohol, gambling, dope
football, hockey, lacrosse, tennis
But what do you expect,
When you raise up a young boy's hopes
And then just crush 'em like so many paper beer cups.

Year after year after year
after year, after year, after year, after year, after year
'Til those hopes are just so much popcorn
for the pigeons beneath the 'L' tracks to eat
He said, "You know I'll never see Wrigley Field, anymore before my eternal rest
So if you have your pencils and your score cards ready,
and I'll read you my last request
He said, "Give me a double header funeral in Wrigley Field
On some sunny weekend day (no lights)
Have the organ play the "National Anthem"
and then a little 'na, na, na, na, hey hey, hey, Goodbye'
Make six bullpen pitchers, carry my coffin
and six ground keepers clear my path
Have the umpires bark me out at every base
In all their holy wrath
Its a beautiful day for a funeral, Hey Ernie lets play two!
Somebody go get Jack Brickhouse to come back,
and conduct just one more interview
Have the Cubbies run right out into the middle of the field,
Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly
Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt
And I'll be ready to die

Build a big fire on home plate out of your Louisville Sluggers baseball bats,
And toss my coffin in
Let my ashes blow in a beautiful snow
From the prevailing 30 mile an hour southwest wind
When my last remains go flying over the left-field wall
Will bid the bleacher bums ad?eu
And I will come to my final resting place, out on Waveland Avenue

The dying man's friends told him to cut it out
They said stop it that's an awful shame
He whispered, "Don't Cry, we'll meet by and by near the Heavenly Hall of Fame
He said, "I've got season's tickets to watch the Angels now,
So its just what I'm going to do
He said, "but you the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs,
So its me that feels sorry for you!"

And he said, "Ahh Play, play that lonesome losers tune,
That's the one I like the best"
And he closed his eyes, and slipped away
What we got is the Dying Cub Fan's Last Request
And here it is

Do they still play the blues in Chicago
When baseball season rolls around
When the snow melts away,
Do the Cubbies still play
In their ivy-covered burial ground
When I was a boy they were my pride and joy
But now they only bring fatigue
To the home of the brave
The land of the free
And the doormat of the National League

A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request




During the 1984 season both Wrigley Field and WGN radio (AM 720) played Go Cubs Go — a song that was also written and performed by Steve Goodman.



Click the Radio to Hear A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request by Steve Goodman

Did you know that when Steve Goodman sang Take Me Out To The Ballgame he switched the Cubs lyrics too, "It's root, root, root, for the home team, If they don't win, what else is new."

Are you a SERIOUS Chicago Cubs (click this link to go to Baseball Almanac's team page) fan? Have you stuck with them through thick & thin? If so, please consider joining our Chicago Cubs message board.
When you Google simply Steve Goodman, the thumbnail photo of him is exactly how he looked the night I saw him... just darken the lights to the amber glow of a small stage.

Now, regarding this very last paragraph in the Quote box... if you decide to drop on over there, be sure you mention when you arrive that you have a standing date over on the LC Files... they're welcome to join you, but you really can't stay long < *beg off* *beg off* > .

I'm looking forward to listening and feeling... and touching the cd treats you speak of... 8) .


Love and Light,
in the darkening of night,
Lizzydoo
User avatar
~greg
Posts: 818
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:26 am

Postby ~greg » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:57 am

Melanie used to use the 1st stanza of 'Penny Evans' as a prefix
to 'Peace Will come'.

This is just that part of it:
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/ ... _Safka.mp3

~

Jack. I don't want to make you cry.
Just the opposite.

~


Lizzy, you know I never read pms
(I never remember to notice that there are any.)

As per your request. Yes. I do still have it somewhere.
But it's a terabyte of iron rust I've got to wade through
to find it. So be patient. It'll take a day or two.

Return to “Leonard Cohen's poetry and novels”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests