Story of Isaac

[jmflash]

I've interpreted this song to be about war, is that correct? LC-"This is a song about those who would sacrifice one generation on behalf of another."

[Helven]

I believe it can be interpreted as a song about war. The younger generations inherit all the kinds of conflicts (between nations, ideologies, religions etc.) and then they enter into these conflicts, they join battle, they die there… and it really looks like sacrifice.

But, of course, the sacrifice theme is inexhaustible so different interpretations would be acceptable here, probably.

[lizzytysh]

Along the same lines as Helven has just explained, JM, I've also "heard" those lines [as you have], as being a reference to "generational" wars and conflicts. As Helven rightfully points out, particularly when it comes to Leonard's songwriting, never stop just there without looking at it from other perspectives. He's a master of double entendres, etc.

[Paula]

I always assumed - as it is so close to the bible story - that the main moral was you should not sacrifice the vunerable for a stronger persons wishes purely to placate or avenge particually if there is no true foundation for the sacrifice. I suppose I saw it more as a Governments cannon fodder.

[lizzytysh]

Oh, Paula ~ I like that interpretation very much! I think it probably could have shades of abortion ~ children/unborn children ~ within it, as well.

[margaret]

I also thought there was a reference to abortion, sacrificing a child for the convenience of the existing generation.

Also sending young men out to fight and die in a useless war.

Another thing that struck me was the line about being 9 years old, this being Leonard's age when his own father died.

[lizzytysh]

Yes, I noticed that, too, Margaret.....his age being the same. Even though, as I'm recalling, Leonard seems to [and has communicated to that effect] have adjusted "well" [very relative term] to the death of his father, he does seem to process his loss in various songs. "My father went down....." is another line of that nature. Then, it seems like there's one about being in the kitchen. I'll have to come up with the exact nature of that one [unless it's about his mother]. It's not coming to me right now. I think the way you've stated both the abortion and war issues are a good way to say it.

~ Lizzy

[Paula]

This is a web site concerning the story of Abraham and Isaac. It speaks volumes for modern life as it did for ancient times.


http://www.anastasis.org.uk/AbrIsaac.htm

[Cohendrix]

The song ends "If you call me brother now . . ." It's hard to imagine that Cohen wasn't thinking of Ishmael to point to one potential interpretation of the song. The song comes post-67 so, on one level, I think is a response to the situation in Israel.

Of course, at the same time, "brother" was hippie argot, so the song seems to comment on U.S. involvement in Viet Nam, too.

The image of the peacock spreading its fan in the final stanza reads like a description of the NBC television network's station identification in 1969. (You can find it on the 'net and play it.) Color TV was a new(ish) thing in '69, and NBC emphasized the colorfulness of the medium with its cartoon station ID--then it would broadcast pictures of mutilated soldiers--you could see the red, I guess.

[jurica]

viewtopic.php?t=3619&highlight=peacock

[Tri-me]

Listened to this song about a million times

I have always seen this song as a father very much bothered by war going a bit shell shocked. The guilt of killing in a war has consumed him and now is seeing himself as a holy man and has found a way to redeem himself.

The father and the son share the wine, so the son is a bit drunk and very confused...not sure of wheter what is going on is something great or something he wishes was not happening

Many wars are religion based and a terrible premise for war, many childern are sacrificed including those not yet born.

War is a confusing time a person in such a severe situation is capable of killing and in the next second doubting their decision

The peacock is a beautiful image and the fact the beautiful plumage is a result of the peacock eating poison.

My visal mind has enjoyed this song, and I see it as an anti war song.

[Tri-me]

Last night had the opportunity to see LLamas from Drepung Loseling Monastery and Drepung Loseling Institute in India. They are in Halifax tonight and then off to England worth seeing http://www.mysticalartsoftibet.org/

They used a peacock feather in one of their performances and I recalled that the peacock represents something in Buddhism. I am not sure when leonard started studying Buddhism, but the peacock at the end, I feel, is very significant to this song.

The eagle/vulture reference, in a way, paralles a Zen Koan which explains to me that we choose how we precieve the world.

A Zen Koan

"Two monks were arguing about the temple flag waving in the wind. One said, 'The flag moves.' The other said, 'The wind moves." They argued back and forth but could not agree. Hui-neng, the Sixth Patriarch, said: 'Gentlemen! It is not the flag that moves. It is not the wind that moves. It is your mind that moves.' The two monks were struck with awe."

--from "The Little Zen Companion" by David Schiller, © 1994. This story also appears (along with a large collection of other koans) at Zen Stories To Tell Your Neighbors.

THE PEACOCK
In a general sense peacocks are a symbol of openness and acceptance. In Christianity the peacock is a symbol of immortality. In Mesopotamia appeared a symbolic representation of a tree flanked by two peacocks, which is said to symbolise the dualistic mind and the absolute unity. In Hinduism the patterns of the peacocks feathers, ressembing eyes, symbolise and stars. In buddhism they symbolise wisdom.

Peacocks are said to have the ability of eating poisonous plants without being affected by them. Because of that, they are synonimous with the great bodhisattvas. A bodhisattva is able to take delusions as the path toward liberation and transform the poisonous mind of ignorance, desire and hatred [moha, raga, dvesa] into the thought of enlightenment or bodhicitta, which opens colourfully like the peacocks' tail.

Here we will quote from a teaching called "The wheel of Sharp Weapons", written by Dharmaraksita, who passed it to his main disciple Dipankara Sri Jnana [Atisa, 982-1054].

"In jungles of poisonous plants strut the peacocks,
Through medicine gardens of beauty lie near.

The masses of peacocks do not find gardens pleasant,

But thrive on the essence of poisonous plants,

In similar fashion the brave bodhisattvas

Remain in the jungle of worlds concern.

No matter how joyful this world pleasure garden,

These brave ones are never attracted to pleasures,

But thrive in the jungle of suffering and pain."

　

The mind of the sentient beings in this world is like a thick forest of desire and hatred. The pleasures and material possessions are like a beautiful medicinal garden. The brave-minded bodhisattvas, because of having realised the shortcomings of samsara, are not atracted to samsaric pleasures, just as the peacocks are not attracted to medicinal plants. The bodhisattvas, having the attitude of wishing only to work for sentient beings and not desiring any happiness for themselves, can utilise the poisonous thoughts of ignorance, desire, hatred and so forth in order to accomplish the works for sentient beings.

Bu eating poison, the peacocks' body becomes healthy and beautiful. He is adorned with five feathers on the head, which symbolise the five paths of the boddhisattva and the attainment of the five Buddha families. They have beautiful colours, like blue, red, green and please other beings just by being seen. Similarly, any body who sees a bodhisattva receives great happiness in his mind. The peacock's eating habits of eating poisonous plants do not cause harm to other beings. Similarly the bodhisattvas don not give the slightest harm to any other sentient beings. By eating poison the colours of his feathers become bright and his body healthy. Similarly, by taking all problems and suffering upon themselves, the bodhisattvas quickly purify the mental obscurations and develop their mind quickly, attaining higher and higher realization. Particularly peacocks symbolise the transmutting of desire into the path of liberation. Therefor they are the vehicle of Buddha amitabha, who represents desire and attachment transmuted into the Wisdom of Discriminating Awareness

[leavallon]

I think the song could be about war, but it could just be about the generation gap. No matter how hard we try not to be like our parents, we must accept the inheritances, and some of them are good as well as bad. I also think that maybe the song could be about the way we are ashamed of our parents when we are young, but then as we get older, we learn to understand them a little better and realize they did the best they could at the time even though we didn't always agree with their decisions.

[jurica]

I also think that maybe the song could be about the way we are ashamed of our parents when we are young, but then as we get older, we learn to understand them a little better and realize they did the best they could at the time even though we didn't always agree with their decisions.

no. i don't think there's any of it in this song. on the contrary.

there's a lot of it in The Captain, though.

[davideo]

I don't know what Leonard would say about the meaning of this song. I am going to say how it hit me back in the late sixties, while I was falling into a major life consuming pit of indescribable fear and hopelessness- not because it is an illuminating perspective, but because I am happy to now look back on the scene and see that I am just not there anymore:
I initially took it (the Song) quite literally such that I felt that the Singer was truly identifying with the likes of Isaac. I think the Singer felt betrayed (as did I ) and that some ominous forboding God called the shots and could not be held accountable for Its actions, demands,etc. Abraham was supposed to axe his son, "for God's sake". Where's that at? It seemed to refer to the need to placate and patronize a God, lest even worse things happen. Cohen was Isaac and had rated second place next to his father' obligated-ness to God. Once the narrative is renderred, the Singer then has to rationalize some of the account and suggest his own disapproval, inasmuch as it was about to account for his death at the hands of his Pappa! So he turned it into a righteous philosophical overview of the tale, but never explains (nor does the Bible) how God could be such a sadistic type. "The peacock spreads his fan" to me inferred some symbolic, mystic conclusion, as if all was said and done, thereby. " If there was anything self-evident about a song like this, would we be discussing it? I was never prepared for the content of Leonard's first two albums, but they swallowed me up. They seemed to be about something. But what. You can't win? Life isn't fair? Help!? Whatever the case, I erroneously thought the man had some special insight into things and I was obsessed with him and his 'meaning'.
Now I just talk to Jesus and pray to God, having found that an Experience of Truth makes a mockery out of reams of philosophical conjecture and debate.